Necking up brass by shooting with inert filler

bcsteve

bcsteve

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As anybody tried anything like that? I was looking into necking up some new Rem nickel plated .30-06 brass for my .35 Whelen and found this on 24Hour Campfire. It was written by Ken Howell an outdoor writer who posts on that forum. I was thinking of just running them through my Hornady die with the elliptical expander but this sounds interesting. I know about fireforming for AI cartridges and stuff like that but never though about fireforming for necking up.

All but one of the methods that I've used produced off-center necks. Fortunately, the only one method that I can recommend works perfectly — fire-forming with inert filler.

I've used a hydraulic case-former, a tapered expander button, a series of expander buttons (.308, 8mm, .338, .358), etc, and found 'em all disappointing. Fire-forming was a most-welcome discovery.

• Prime with pistol primers.
• Lube cases with good case lube.
• Load a test case with 10 to 12 grains of Bullseye or other fast pistol powder (generally, I go light with a .25-06 case and use a bit more with a .30-06 case).
• Wad ¼ sheet of toilet tissue into a loose ball and tamp it down lightly atop the powder charge.
• Fill case to the mouth with inert filler (Cream of Wheat, Instant Ralston, corn meal, etc) — but not flour.
• Close mouth with smear of Vaseline, cast-bullet lube, paraffin wax, or a disc of paper from a paper punch.
• Insert case in chamber with muzzle up.
• Fire.
• Inspect test case. If shoulder hasn't formed full and sharp, increase test load slightly and try again.
 
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I use the COW (cream of wheat) method of fireforming and it works great. You can also use corn meal. Just no instant stuff and never store in damp areas. The filler might turn into a solid mass and that would be very bad for your health.

I like using Win 231 and any Large primer I have. Great for all that old mystery gunshow stuff.

I put in the powder and put the COW on top without any tissue. Way safer as the COW will keep that powder in place. I use a piece of paper towel into the neck and push down with a bit of pressure to make sure it is all firmly in place and will not spill out.

fire at the range as you are still discharging a firearm. The COW will blow back onto you, the bench and your scope if shooting into a headwind. That's a big mess.

Also, make sure that the case headspaces firmly in the chamber. This method works only if the case fits the chamber tightly. If loose, you will need to form a secondary shoulder so that the case doesn't move with firing pin impact.

I use this before I load for any of my rifles.

Jerry
 
I would suggest annealing your cases first. I have fire formed upwards and in your case would press a piece of 00 buckshot in the case mouth. I use pistol or shotgun powders for expanding with a pinch of dryer lint on top of the powder to ensure ignition. Start with a few grains and work your way upwards until you have a charge that expands the case the way you want it.

cheers mooncoon
 
I make 35 Whelen and just anneal, lube with sizing wax and size. Presto.

However if you want to try fireforming and want to use up primers and powder make noise and a mess ;) I suggest a few changes to the posted routine which I have followed dozens of times:

• Prime with rifle primer.
• Lube cases with good case lube (including the inside of the neck or the sizing ball).
• Load a case with 10 to 12 grains of Bullseye (I use 15.0 grs of Unique) or other fast pistol powder
• Fill case to the neck with Cream of Wheat
• tamp in a 1 1/2" square of toilet paper
• Insert case in chamber with muzzle up
• Fire
• Inspect test case. If shoulder hasn't formed full and sharp, increase test load slightly and try again.

Wear ear protection and aim somewhere where the blast will not cause injury or damage (and the mess won't matter).
 
Andy, have you ever tried to make .35 Whelen brass with nickeled brass? And yes, I admit, it's only for the cool factor:p .
 
bcsteve said:
Andy, have you ever tried to make .35 Whelen brass with nickeled brass? And yes, I admit, it's only for the cool factor:p .
Click to expand...

No, I gave up nickelled brass when I sold my jewelled cape. :)

Assuming you anneal before sizing and use lots of good case lube, I can't see how that would be more violent and thus harder on the brass than fireforming at 20K psi in 1/1000 sec. I've split brass both ways.

However, if you've tried careful sizing and it just doesn't work, you have nothing to lose trying fireforming.
 
Re: Lubing the case. Howell does not do this as an aid in sizing the case in a die. The case is lightly lubed to ensure it will slip back tightly onto the bolt face when actually being fire formed. This to ensure proper head space is achieved which may not happen if the case expands and clings to the chamber walls as firing pin thrust may drive/hold the case forward in the chamber. The process works fine but is hardly necessary with the 35 Whelen if you have a tapered expander ball in your sizing die. It's a one step deal that way.
 
mysticplayer said:
I use the COW (cream of wheat) method of fireforming and it works great.

Jerry
Click to expand...

I have a friend that forms his 240 Gibbs brass using the COW and "bullseye" method. I thought it worked really well!
 
I've had the nickel flake off necks when going from 280 to 338, not a big deal though.

I've also done lots of cream of wheat when making 338-06 AI, it works well, but I will add that you should check the bore often for build-up of cream of whaet.
 
stocker said:
The process works fine but is hardly necessary with the 35 Whelen if you have a tapered expander ball in your sizing die. It's a one step deal that way.
Click to expand...

I see it the other way, it necks up and fireform in one step instead of resizing with the die, loading with powder and bullet and fireforming. Saves on bullet too. I'll give both a try.
 
35 Whelen case forming

bcsteve: I neck up with a tapered expander , load my regular load and shoot as normal for range or hunting. Saves one primer, reduced pistol powder chargetoilet paper , cream of wheat. Such a deal.:rolleyes:
 
Have a .416 rem. mag Sako and brass can be expensive and once fired cases are non existant . 375 H&H brass is not and I've fireformed over 200 , 375 cases in my 416 with 100% success..... yes 375 to 416 in one shot using the following method. 20 grains Bullseye into 375 case, fill case with poly shotshell buffer...tamp down buffer to top of case and compact it a bit using a rod ( I used a pencil ) .... then cap the case with wax by using case mouth edge to "cookie cut" wax from 8 by 10 in. sheets available at craft/hobby stores, about 1/4 in. thick is what i used and works good. Clean off any excess wax at case mouth and your done. These cases headspace on the case belt and when fired are formed 100 % to your chamber specs. As previously mentioned by others, take cleaning rod with you and run a patch through every 5 or 6 shots. These fireforming loads are lethal at close range,very loud , and are meant to be fired outdoors only.. I have had the same success with this method useing 10-12 grains reddot powder in forming 303 British to 303 Epps which headspaces on the rim... as the 30-06 has neither belt nor rim I still feel this method would work well for you.
 
fireforming

The point is a standard 35 Whelen when used in a properly cut chamber and properly adjusted sizing die is a simple neck up. No substantial re-forming of the case at all. The other cartridges referred to do have some substantial case re-forming going on and an Ackley improved or Brown Whelen also do although you can simply fire a 35 Whelen cartridge in an Ackley chamber if it was cut right to begin with. With the standard Whelen assuming proper dimensions all around there is no more re-forming than you would get with firing a factory loaded 30-06 cartridge in a 30-06 chamber. At best you get a bit of ironing out of the neck and slight adjustment of the shoulder. Assuming you keep your lots of brass discrete there is no good reason not to indulge some target practice on the initial firing. However if you wish to do it the other way there is nothing stopping you.
 
I've fire-formed lots of 30-30 brass into 38-55 brass using 10 grains of Win 231, Winchester large pistol primer, 1 sheet of toilet paper over the powder, fill with cornmeal and top with wax.

I've had 100 % success with it (other than the cases are a tad shorter than 38-55 brass).
 
bcsteve said:
As anybody tried anything like that? I was looking into necking up some new Rem nickel plated .30-06 brass for my .35 Whelen and found this on 24Hour Campfire. It was written by Ken Howell an outdoor writer who posts on that forum. I was thinking of just running them through my Hornady die with the elliptical expander but this sounds interesting. I know about fireforming for AI cartridges and stuff like that but never though about fireforming for necking up.

All but one of the methods that I've used produced off-center necks. Fortunately, the only one method that I can recommend works perfectly — fire-forming with inert filler.

I've used a hydraulic case-former, a tapered expander button, a series of expander buttons (.308, 8mm, .338, .358), etc, and found 'em all disappointing. Fire-forming was a most-welcome discovery.

• Prime with pistol primers.
• Lube cases with good case lube.
• Load a test case with 10 to 12 grains of Bullseye or other fast pistol powder (generally, I go light with a .25-06 case and use a bit more with a .30-06 case).
• Wad ¼ sheet of toilet tissue into a loose ball and tamp it down lightly atop the powder charge.
• Fill case to the mouth with inert filler (Cream of Wheat, Instant Ralston, corn meal, etc) — but not flour.
• Close mouth with smear of Vaseline, cast-bullet lube, paraffin wax, or a disc of paper from a paper punch.
• Insert case in chamber with muzzle up.
• Fire.
• Inspect test case. If shoulder hasn't formed full and sharp, increase test load slightly and try again.
Click to expand...

All except the sticky ending of vaseline,or wax. Stay dry. about 10 grs of 700x,cornmeal to neck then TP should do your 06
 
All but one of the methods that I've used produced off-center necks. Fortunately, the only one method that I can recommend works perfectly — fire-forming with inert filler.
Click to expand...
I also came to this conclusion independently. I noticed that when expanding 30/06 case necks that the COW method gave me notably more concentric neck wall thicknesses than I got using my routine expander ball method. I don't neck turn and since I plan to reload these modified cases and, since I believe accuracy may be better with the COW method, I prefer it now though it's more messin about.
 
Well, I got my nickel .30-06 Rem brass and I tried running them through my Hornady dies with the elliptical expander and lots of lube. After trying about a dozen, I only managed to get one that didn't split. I'll have to try the COW method!:(
 
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