Need 45/70 loads with a 405gr or 525gr bullet

tigrr

tigrr

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I would like some recipe's for a 405gr bullet or a 525gr bullet using black powder and smokeless powder.
I know nothing about black powder! But I'd like to try it!!
I have IMR 4064, Varget and W 748. The bullet is a Lee bullet mold number 90491 and it throws a hollow point bullet, 457 dia and 405 grains. I have cast about 100 of these bullets. The gun, dies and brass will be here anyday now. I bought the Lyman cast bullet handbook and it has nothing about 405 grain bullets.

The gun is a H&R Buffalo Classic 32" barrel.
What do you suggest??
 
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There are many loads using smokeless powders in the manuals and on-line, my favorite powder(smokeless) is AA2015, Black Powder is a different story. You may have to fall back and regroup, as it is very diff....first off you should use very soft cast bullets(not made from wheelweights) 30-1 lead to tin is about right. You need to use a proper BP lube to control fouling as most other lubes will contribute to fouling. You drop tube the charge(I use a 4' drop tube) to compact the powder from top to bottom. The case should be full to the base of the bullet with BP and no air space. I wouldn't use the bullet to compress the powder as it will deform the bullet and compress only the top 1/3 of the powder. You will have to use trial and error to find out exactly how much powder it will take to fill the case to the base of the bullet...enjoy!!
 
First, buy a current Reloading Manual and a good scale.
I see loads listed in my manual for a 405 grain jacketed using Reloder 7; Herc 2400; IMR3031;4227;4895;4064;4320;4198;4350;4831;SR4759;H322;H4895;BL-C(2);H335 and H4227 to name just a few.
I don't see loads listed for the powders you mention, but the manufacturer of the powder likely has a telephone number on the label. You might try calling them for advice.
I'm using Trail Boss and a Dacron filler in the case, due to it's large size.
If you are new to reloading, please get a good manual and study it carefully before you try loading anything.
AND USE A SCALE TO MEASURE OUT YOUR CHARGES!
That said, loading with black powder is a little tricky, since you must ensure the case is completely full, slightly compressed when the bullet is seated, much like you would do with a muzzle loader.
All in all, please be very carefull, I don't want to read about the KA-BOOOM you might have by not following proper loading procedures.
None of it is difficult, but care must be taken to ensure you don't have an accident.
 
Black powder sounds like a whole new set of challenges!
Ben you saying I should make bullets with my pure lead, +1% tin, I new I saved it for something! BP lube where?
 
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Yup, just use pure lead and add 1 oz of 95-5 solder to every 2 lbs(2 ingots) of pure lead, better gun shops will sell SPG bp lube, or lymans version, both are expensive at $7 but if you are only using a little you're O.K. If you need more, my 1873 formula is avail. at 1/2 that price, let me know if you need any info on drop tubes, blow tubes, etc. Most of the stuff you need for BP reloading can be fashioned yourself for little or no cost.
 
I want to find a load that will compete with the big boys at the 1000 yard buffalo shoot. I've never had a rifle with a 32" barrel before. This should be fun!
So I have some .45/70 bullets made from range scraps, these would be harder than pure lead with 1% tin. Is it safe to shoot these bullets?
I haven't found any reference to black powder anywhere. What type do they use in .45/70 reloading? Like FF or FFF.
 
I hate to keep throwing things in your path but, for work over 3 or 400 yds. your 405 gr. bullet won't cut it, at long range in the 45/70, at BP velocities you will need a somewhat pointed bullet of 525grs or more or drop will be excessive and wind drift will be worst. BPCR sillywet shooters use that length/weight out to 500 meters for the same reasons as well as increased momentum to knock down the steel targets.
I would use 2fg grade black unless you can find "Swiss" brand BP,(the best out there)they market a 1 1/2fg that i like, the Swiss powder is close to the great BP of yesteryear in dev. higher vel. and cleaner burning.( not clean...cleaner)
 
I use 65 grains of FFF in my buffalo classic. You cannot over load the gun with black powder. Be careful with heavy loads of modern powders. I found the gun could really kick the heck out my shoulder.

My cast bullets are range recovery and I have had little problem with lead fouling so you should be safe.
 
Sorry, but I used a 405 grain bullet for the first couple of years doing DCRA Long Range, and I managed reasonable scores on the 1000 yard target. Certainly, the heavier bullets are better, but that doesn't mean you cannot use the 405 grain.
Certainly, lots of obstacles, but a beginner doesn't need every little trick in order to make his rifle and bullets work.
They don't have to be dead soft for BP; I have used water quenched wheelweights. The bullets need to fit the bore diameter. After that, start with any alloy you have.
Your throat is probably short, which means that your bullet cannot be seated out.
For BP, the charge weight will depend on how deeply your bullet needs to be seated in order to fit your throat. The BP should be compressed lightly by the bullet, about .1 inch or so (this is not exact). You can achieve some powder compression by using a short drop tube (MTM used to make a 4 inch drop tube set), and spilling the powder from about 4-6 inches above the funnel. Then, the bullet can add an additional .1 inch of compression. Don't try to achieve too much compression by bullet seating, as the bullet will start to deform.
If you can make them, a cardboard wad (from a pad of paper) is handy between the powder and the bullet base (if you are using a plain based bullet. Gas checked bullets don't need one). As for lube you can buy SPG, or use something like 50% Crisco and Beeswax.
Once you get the rifle working, you can start to refine with heavier bullets, longer drop tubes, etc, etc. But, you can make it work well without all of it.
 
Al-Sway...
tiggr... MISREAD YOUR POST :( You are right, you DON'T need every little trick and tool, though I wouldn't go with less than an 18" drop tube. With a consistent pour time, the loads will be more accurate. As for making your own lube, there literally dozens of recipes. Just make sure that it is not too hard in winter temps, and not too soft for hot summer temps - have fun with that ;)

tigrr...
ben is a fountain of info - just watch you don't drown in it ;) I use his heavy boolits, 525, 535, and 555 for my Shiloh 30". Black is an awesome powder, and yours will shoot way differant than mine, with the same load. So, lots of shooting/experimenting is in order.
And may I suggest my friend's book= Shooting Buffalo Guns of the Old West, and the SPG Black Powder Reloading Manual (with Steve Garbe). Mike Venturino is one of the best BPC shooters, and a great guy to talk with.
Hope you have fun, Iknow I do!

Ben...not sure if you know it, but MLV is in the hospital in Geat Falls.

Later..........
 
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So your saying on my next trip to the city I should look for fiber washers to place between bullet and black powder. Some 525 gr bullets, SPG bp bullet lube, FFg black powder(swis if I can find it).

I have access to many different materials for a drop tube, 1/2" SS pipe, plastic pipe, black iron pipe. What is the best material for a drop tube?
 
NOT plastic!...
Brass or copper. Brass is best(IMHO).
As for BP, get a couple of cuts, Goex 2Fg, 3Fg, and some Swiss 1 1/2 Fg.
If you can swing it, get Paul A. Mathews' BP loading series. Really helpful. Way more than I could ;)
If you like I could lend you my copies, and Mike's book, until you get set up.

One big thing with reloading, especially with BPC, because there are so many components in a singe cartridge, ONLY CHANGE ONE COMPONENT AT A TIME, and take it from experience, WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN, then make a copy, and put some place safe.

Feel free to pm me if need anything!!

Later....
 
tigrr said:
So your saying on my next trip to the city I should look for fiber washers to place between bullet and black powder. Some 525 gr bullets, SPG bp bullet lube, FFg black powder(swis if I can find it).

I have access to many different materials for a drop tube, 1/2" SS pipe, plastic pipe, black iron pipe. What is the best material for a drop tube?
Click to expand...

plastic=static electricity=spark=BOOM!
 
Pretty much any of the trapdoor loads in the Lyman manuals ought to do the trick. I've had good luck with IMR-3031 and SR-4759 with the larger cast bullets.

Switching to BP will up the fun factor quite a bit. Once I started I was hooked. Goex Cartridge is a good granulation to start with, or FFg.

If you want to get into BP you might find this of use:

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction to BPCR Loading.pdf

Chris.
 
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