Need a few opinions on .308

J

jertedford

Member
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Location
S.E, Saskatchewan
Hey guys, I recently just aquired a tactical .308 . didn't really need it, but it was already set up nicely, (sniper stock, 50 mm mildot illuminated scope, Rem 700 ported and braked) Very confortable to shoot from prone. I am looking for a good longer range Deer rifle.. I am used to the .325 WSM. Big difference here... what is about the best kill range I can gain out of the .308 , keeping in mind handloading is a very viable option for this round. :) I do NOT punch paper really at all, just for initial site in. I am slightly more UNFAMILIAR with the .308 round , like I said I have always used mags. Some people go both ways. just need some opinions from guys that have more experience.... any thoughts would be great... THANKS :)
 
The .308 is quite capable of killing deer out to most ranges that the average person should be shooting. If you practice a lot and get good at reading the wind and more importantly recognizing when a shot isn't a good idea it can be stretched a little further.

Using typical 165gr bullets at an average .308 velocity you still have around 1000lbs of energy out to 600yards. Past that wind starts becoming more and more of an issue. So making a precise shot placement with minimal energy becomes more critical and the ability to say no to the shot becomes more important.

On a side note I shoot both the 325WSM and the .308 and when loaded with the 220gr Sierra the 325WSM has a very similar trajectory as the .308.
 
If you are using the point blank method - you easily kill to about 250m without any holdover (depending on your zero) if you are precision shooting - 600m with little difficulty.
 
Handloading is the definative anwer to accuracy. Being able to change bullet weights shape powders..etc is what dials in accuracy. The .308 is capable of hits up to 1000m. I've only hit targets up to about 500m(which is pretty far in the B.C coast). With standard factory ammo i'd keep it in 200m depending on your setup. The porting if its done wrong can seroiusly effect your accuaracy. I find no reason to port a .308, especially on a tactical heavy barrel. You'll never know till you get out and try it your self. I'd buy a few different boxes of .308 with different bullet weights. Keep your barrel cool as well while doing this. Really, tactical rifles make silly hunting rifles. I do it as well, for i don't mind packing around the extra weight.
 
haha.. I do understand that tactical "heavy" rifles make silly hunting rifles..I do find that they are far more comfortable to shoot. However I will have 2 rifles... one for walking and quick shots, "eyballing" the target at closer ranges to 250 - 300 yards.. the .308 being heavy and cumbersome, is going to be set up as a "LONGER RANGE" where there is more than enough time to setup, lay down , take my time and make the adjustments needed for a clean kill at further distances. I am hoping the .308 will do for now untill i can get the .338 LM set up, built etc.... they are pretty pricy... soooooo could take some time.. haha..
 
I'm using a load that I depevolped with Hornady 190gr InterLocks and Varget/ Lapua brass this season. I've had consistently excellent accuracy out to 800 yards in my PGW Coyote with that load....24" Krieger with a 1-10 twist. According to exbal I'll have roughly (if I can remember right) 1000 ft/lbs of energy at 650 yards. Ethically I'm confident enough in my equipment and myself to make a clean kill at that 650 yard distance with my 308....of course depending on the condtions. Anything further (for me) I'd feel more confident (and more comfortable in making an ethical kill) with a cartridge that has a bigger gas tank like a 300WM or a larger cal like the 338's. I'm sure some guys with more experience with the 308 as a longer range deer rifle will chime in shorly. Hopefully I was able to answer some of your concerns in the meantime.
 
jertedford said:
Hey guys, I recently just aquired a tactical .308 . didn't really need it, but it was already set up nicely, (sniper stock, 50 mm mildot illuminated scope, Rem 700 ported and braked) Very confortable to shoot from prone. I am looking for a good longer range Deer rifle.. I am used to the .325 WSM. Big difference here... what is about the best kill range I can gain out of the .308 , keeping in mind handloading is a very viable option for this round. :) I do NOT punch paper really at all, just for initial site in. I am slightly more UNFAMILIAR with the .308 round , like I said I have always used mags. Some people go both ways. just need some opinions from guys that have more experience.... any thoughts would be great... THANKS :)
Click to expand...

What is the twist rate in your barrel? This will help determine whether you can send the bigger bullets down range. If you have an 11 or 12 twist you will find that 175 gr bullets are about all that will stabilize well.
The heavier bullets retain energy, momentum etc longer so increase tyour effective range.

I shoot 190 gr ULDs out of my 308 and they generate 2785 FPS which works out to 1075 ftlbs of energy at 1000 yards according to Exbal, which in theory is enough to kill deer fairly easily assuming proper shot placement.
Personally I would NOT take a 1000 yard shot on game with a 308, but at 750 would not hesitate. That being said a 4" gong at 1000 yards is not a big deal for me to hit as I shoot that distance ALOT with this rifle.
You don't define what distance you feel comfortable at but I am thinking given the standard constraints of a out of the box 308 shooting factory ammo 500 yards would be pushing the limits unless you are a very accomplished shooter.

Armorman, try some Vitavhouri N550 in your 308, your pressures will go down but your velocity will increase along with your retained downrange kinetic energy.
 
1 in 9 inch twist is what I am at for the barrel . looking for some good heavier projectiles that people have had experience with Hunting... Realistically I will be looking at 600 - 800 yards max with the rifle... especially being that field conditions will be LESS than optimal for trajectory prediction to be perfect. but hey ya never know.. we might get a perfect day.............. Thanks for the opinions thus far guys.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
That being said a 4" gong at 1000 yards is not a big deal for me to hit as I shoot that distance ALOT with this rifle.
You don't define what distance you feel comfortable at but I am thinking given the standard constraints of a out of the box 308 shooting factory ammo 500 yards would be pushing the limits unless you are a very accomplished shooter.
Click to expand...

As usual Rick nailed it. If you have to ask at what range you can kill a deer, then IMHO you are not ready for long range game shooting. Set up some clay birds on the backstop, and when you can hit the clay on demand, from field positions, with the first shot (no ranging shot), under time constraints, then that is the range that you can justify shooting at a live target under similar conditions. Learning to dope mirage, wind, and elevation to the target is a paper target exercise rather than a skill to be learned in the field.

If your long range shooting is limited to the use of 155 gr Palma bullets, you need to go heavier. Yes lots of deer drop to 150 gr .30 caliber bullets with 300 yards, but once the velocity drops below 2000 fps you need more bullet mass to ensure good penetration on a live target.

You can do a couple of tricks with your .308 to get a bit more velocity. The one that makes the most difference is to lengthen the lead so that a heavy bullet can be loaded with only the boat-tail extending into the shoulder of the cartridge. This chambering allows me to drive a 200 gr MK to within a hair of 2700 fps from a 28" barrel and as a result my rifle behaves more like a hot .30/06 or a moderately loaded .300 magnum without the heavy recoil than it does like a .308. Also, if you had the chamber re-cut to conform to .308 AI dimensions, you could conceivably gain a bit more, but I haven't bothered as a 200 at 2700 suits my purposes.
 
Two things will determine a max effective hunting range for shooting deer:

A - at what distance does a .308 Win run out of adequate performance? (which could be group size, or impact velocity, or impact energy)

B - at what distance is the shooter unable to deliver an accurate-enough shot?

In most cases, "B" will be the limiting factor. I will suggest that it requires a fairly accomplished marksman to shoot a deer at 300 yards or beyond with a virtually-certain likelihood of delivering a good enough shot. And by the time someone has learned what it takes to deliver such a shot, they'll have also picked up enough technical knowledge along the way such that selecting appropriate ammo and equipment will be something they've long since figured out.

With respect to shooting a deer at 600 yards or 800 yards with a .308, that is do-able, but you should be aware that to make such a shot with a reasonable degree of assurance requires a mastery of long range marksmanship. It might be useful to consider that that sort of range can be arguably considered to be the maximum effective range for a military sniper using a .308 Win.

(If I was to ever take up long range hunting, my very first purchase would be a good laser rangefinder.)
 
Boomer said:
As usual Rick nailed it. If you have to ask at what range you can kill a deer, then IMHO you are not ready for long range game shooting. Set up some clay birds on the backstop, and when you can hit the clay on demand, from field positions, with the first shot (no ranging shot), under time constraints, then that is the range that you can justify shooting at a live target under similar conditions. Learning to dope mirage, wind, and elevation to the target is a paper target exercise rather than a skill to be learned in the field.

If your long range shooting is limited to the use of 155 gr Palma bullets, you need to go heavier. Yes lots of deer drop to 150 gr .30 caliber bullets with 300 yards, but once the velocity drops below 2000 fps you need more bullet mass to ensure good penetration on a live target.

You can do a couple of tricks with your .308 to get a bit more velocity. The one that makes the most difference is to lengthen the lead so that a heavy bullet can be loaded with only the boat-tail extending into the shoulder of the cartridge. This chambering allows me to drive a 200 gr MK to within a hair of 2700 fps from a 28" barrel and as a result my rifle behaves more like a hot .30/06 or a moderately loaded .300 magnum without the heavy recoil than it does like a .308. Also, if you had the chamber re-cut to conform to .308 AI dimensions, you could conceivably gain a bit more, but
I haven't bothered as a 200 at 2700 suits my purposes.
Click to expand...



Thank you for the insight.. The question was not if I was capable of making such a shot. I have made 6-700 yard shots on white tail and mule deer with my other mag rifles, I have spent hours upon hours getting my load and projectiles right, practice in different conditions including rain and snow etc. I should have been more specific I do believe. I was looking for a bit more information from the "wiser" shooters of the .308. There are allot of tricks and tips, projectiles, loads etc to start from based on previouse experience of other shooters. hoping to save myself a few hours on this go around. :). thanks again guys.
 
Boomer said:
As usual Rick nailed it. If you have to ask at what range you can kill a deer, then IMHO you are not ready for long range game shooting. Set up some clay birds on the backstop, and when you can hit the clay on demand, from field positions, with the first shot (no ranging shot), under time constraints, then that is the range that you can justify shooting at a live target under similar conditions. Learning to dope mirage, wind, and elevation to the target is a paper target exercise rather than a skill to be learned in the field.

If your long range shooting is limited to the use of 155 gr Palma bullets, you need to go heavier. Yes lots of deer drop to 150 gr .30 caliber bullets with 300 yards, but once the velocity drops below 2000 fps you need more bullet mass to ensure good penetration on a live target.

You can do a couple of tricks with your .308 to get a bit more velocity. The one that makes the most difference is to lengthen the lead so that a heavy bullet can be loaded with only the boat-tail extending into the shoulder of the cartridge. This chambering allows me to drive a 200 gr MK to within a hair of 2700 fps from a 28" barrel and as a result my rifle behaves more like a hot .30/06 or a moderately loaded .300 magnum without the heavy recoil than it does like a .308. Also, if you had the chamber re-cut to conform to .308 AI dimensions, you could conceivably gain a bit more, but I haven't bothered as a 200 at 2700 suits my purposes.
Click to expand...

Boomer, what powder are you using to get that velocity out of a 200gr bullet?
 
I like the Lapua 167 Gr. Stuff. It works extremely well in my Remington 700 VTR 1/12", and my R-25 loves it as well with the 1/10". I am looking forward to hunting with the R-25 down in the USA.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
Boomer, what powder are you using to get that velocity out of a 200gr bullet?
Click to expand...

Winchester 760 was the powder but I won't reveal the load in case someone with a standard chamber attempts to use it. My barrel is a 1:8 28" Krieger, and again the chamber was cut to allow a 200 gr MK to seat out long so as not to extend down into the powder capacity of the case.

I used a chronograph to determine the maximum load and the velocity plateaued at 2680 when working up in 1 gr increments. Typically the next increment would have resulted in a sticky bolt without much increase in velocity. Previously I had worked up to 2618 fps with H-4350 which was my best velocity until I tried 760. My Mexican Match, again using the 200 gr MK, and military ball powder, which in all likelyhood had a burning rate similar to 748, gave me about 2400 but tied up the bolt and left pressure signs on the brass when pushed to 2440 and the velocity became very erratic.

DSC_0018-1_edited-1-1.jpg


DSC_00223.jpg
 
As far as hunting with the .308 here is my deer this year from 390 yards. Shot taken with no wind at all. I would say that this was my absolute max range for deer. To be honest I think it is even a bit further than I would like. Any wind at all and I would not have taken the shot. If you zero your gun for 200yds you still have close to a 2 foot drop at that distance. Shot was taken prone using a bipod and it was a quick clean kill. I have been hitting the range with this gun trying to get smaller and smaller groups that is the real challenging part!

mybuckwebfriendly.jpg
 
spenom said:
As far as hunting with the .308 here is my deer this year from 390 yards. Shot taken with no wind at all. I would say that this was my absolute max range for deer. To be honest I think it is even a bit further than I would like. Any wind at all and I would not have taken the shot. If you zero your gun for 200yds you still have close to a 2 foot drop at that distance. Shot was taken prone using a bipod and it was a quick clean kill. I have been hitting the range with this gun trying to get smaller and smaller groups that is the real challenging part!

mybuckwebfriendly.jpg
Click to expand...

Were you holding over or using your turrets for the come up?
I am at a loss as to why with a tac scope you would zero at 200 rather than 100 yards. The idea of having turrets like your scope has is to use them to adjust up for distance.
The trajectory for my 308 zeroed at 100 yards is 5.75 moa up for a 400 yard shot, so your math is good. Just wondering is all.
 
www.longrangehunting.com will give you plenty of info.

Big one is wind drift. The 308 is no wind cheater and if you already have magnums, why make life harder? I really like the 7RM.

I know accomplished LR hunters that had no issue pounding deer in the 700ish range using 308's on the Sask deer culls.

Once you know you can deliver the bullet where you want, choose a light jacketed bullet.

The two 'best' ones I can think of are the new Berger hunting VLD and the Amax. Both will expand at low velocity given you plenty of tissue damage.

KE doesn't come close to explaining effective killing potential. A FMJ arriving at high KE is not going to do anywhere near the damage (unless it tumbles inside of course) as a soft expanding bullet at low speeds.

Match the bullet construction to the impact velocity and you will have great on game success.

Jerry
 
Rick is right in that bullet impact characteristics are as important as velocity for determining what will provide the most soft-tissue damage. Wound ballistics is a fascinating subject and many factors influence what will result in suffucient lethal tissue disruption. High velocity projectiles incude very large areas of cavitation and if you have ever seen some of the high speed gelatin studies, you will see what I mean.

Low speed, high expansion projectiles likewise produce a great deal of damage.

The secret to making these characteristics work is to hit the target in an area where it will have the best effect. I therefore feel that accuracy is the long range characteristic that contributes most to an assured humane kill. Blowing off a leg with a 223 or a 338 Lapua Magum is just as painful and unhumane.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom