Need advice - value of a 1941 Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III?

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SkodaCanada

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Hi,

I was hoping for some advice on the value of a 1941 Aussie Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.III - non-sporterized.

It's in good honest condition, but the wood shows wear and age, and I don't believe it's a numbers matching example.

I have my PAL, but I'm not terribly experienced hence the request for help.

I'd like to get a fair honest price for what it is. Any thoughts as to a fair asking price?

This is NOT a For Sale Thread - when it's for sale I'll post it in the exchange section; just gathering info...


Here are a few pics (below) and a link with more detailed pics (http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/Sko-tastic/library/Lee-Enfield

Thanks.

303-1.jpg


303-2.jpg
 
Skoda your a newbie like me. Looking at the pictures on my phone so I can't comment too much on the detail, and I've got no idea of value, but I'm curious about the serial numbers. What's not matching?

Also the wood looks much lighter at the nosecap, indicating it may have been a cadet rifle and the yellow band has been removed.
 
She has been rode hard. Like Cantom says, bore condition could be the last issue. The wood is in very poor shape but even so, I would say that with a fair bore it could still start at $350. I have seen some in that condition go for that much if shootable.
 
points said:
She has been rode hard. Like Cantom says, bore condition could be the last issue. The wood is in very poor shape but even so, I would say that with a fair bore it could still start at $350. I have seen some in that condition go for that much if shootable.
Click to expand...

Yes, fair condition examples seem to go for at least $300. If it has matching serial numbers on the receiver and bolt, with a good bore I would say $450-500 judging from what I've seen in retail locations. When you say the wood is rough, is it just dents and dings or are there cracks and/or areas that have been cut out and repaired? Handling marks from service use are to be expected on many milsurps and may not be too detrimental to the value.

*note, I'm on my phone so it's hard to judge condition from your photos. It does look like she has a couple really rough spots though.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Someone smarter with No.1 SMLE rifles should comment on the three little holes on the breech ring of the rifle, shown at:

http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/S...rt=3&o=9&_suid=138677179888307344954435257645

In No.4 rifle circles, a deactivated or 'dummy rifle' may have the chamber pierced so it cannot be safely fired. May, but not always.
Click to expand...

That's standard. My 1917 Lithgow with an excellent bore has them too. The three little holes serve to relieve pressure in the event of a ruptured case, rather than let it blow back into your face or the magazine.
 
Based solely on the pictures, I'd agree with the $350 value.
However, all Lee-Enfields magically have doubled in value sometime in 2013, so it's worth at least $700, right? ;)
 
I note the super-low post count. Welcome aboard. I'm the resident Crusty Old Phart; just ask the guys in Red Rifles!

Body (receiver) should match the Barrel should match the Bolt should match the Forestock should match the Nose Cap should match the Rear Sight.

Most commonly, Bolts have been switched but that generally occurred after they left the Service.

The Aussies appreciated an ACCURATE rifle and some of these can REALLY shoot, even if they look a bit rough.

Most common complaint is The Damned Crack (rear of Forestock, right where the wood is thinnest and the Trigger/Sear interface). You can't see it from outside but you know it's there because your accuracy no longer exists. (ANY SMLE should be able to shoot under 3 MOA if you can hold it.) The Damned Crack can utterly destroy accuracy, which is the Bad Part. Good Part is that it can be repaired for about a dime.

BORE CONDITION is very important. If the rifle is all-matching and with a good bore (clean, bright, sharp lands, no rounding, no crap or rust in grooves) it could go as high as 450 the way things are right now. Knock 100 off that if the Bolt doesn't match or if the bore isn't good enough.

The old SMLE is about the single toughest full-power battle rifle ever built and they can be deadly out to 3/4 of a mile in the right hands. Why not keep her? Excellent centrepiece for a WW2 or WW1 collection.
 
It might be rough, but it looks like honest wear. I personally like that more than the idea of collecting only pristine pieces. I've had a few of those but they were so boring to look at that they had to leave. I even try to leave some character in my restoration projects these days, stock repairs etc. I could look at a non refurbed, honest veteran all day and not get bored. Too bad if the bolt is a mismatch, but if the locking lugs mate properly and headspace is safe then it'll be a fun shooter. I too, would keep it and enjoy it. If you do sell it, be fair but don't sell yourself short or you'll kick yourself later.
 
If you can get some "Wipe-Out" foaming bore cleaner, its good stuff, squirt a little in the chamber, and set the rifle muzzle down for a hour, and push a couple of patches through
 
x westie said:
If you can get some "Wipe-Out" foaming bore cleaner, its good stuff, squirt a little in the chamber, and set the rifle muzzle down for a hour, and push a couple of patches through
Click to expand...

DO NOT get it on the wood at all! In fact take the fore end off first. I don't use it on my milsurps at all unless the wood is off. It will destroy the finish, turning it blue. New oil also does not seem to adhere to the ruined spot. Instead of that stuff I now very carefully use a gel cleaner called RB-17. It very quickly removes rust and fowling. It's much less messy than a foam cleaner because you have better control over where it goes. Also a very small amount goes a long way. It's much cheaper than wipe out too. It's a miracle rust remover as well.
 
flying pig said:
DO NOT get it on the wood at all! In fact take the fore end off first. I don't use it on my milsurps at all unless the wood is off. It will destroy the finish, turning it blue. New oil also does not seem to adhere to the ruined spot. Instead of that stuff I now very carefully use a gel cleaner called RB-17. It very quickly removes rust and fowling. It's much less messy than a foam cleaner because you have better control over where it goes. Also a very small amount goes a long way. It's much cheaper than wipe out too. It's a miracle rust remover as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks, i forgot to mention about avoid getting it on the wood,
 
"...Clean bore or dark bore makes a big difference..." So does proof of good headspace.
"...don't believe it's a numbers matching..." If the S/N on the receiver and the back of the bolt handle are the same, it's matching. Matching does not guarantee good headspace.
"...The wood is in very poor shape..." Nonsense. It needs a bath, but it's not in "very poor shape". Dings and dents can be fixed by steaming. Any wood cleaner will take off the assorted dirt.
 
When I was a kid they were around $19.99 in the Eaton's catalogue.
I asked my dad if I should order one and he said 'No, don't do it, they're shot out."

Funny thing is he had a sporter (this was the early 60s) that was made from a BSA No. 1 Mk III himself. It had what looked like a rosewood stock though it might have just been a reddish walnut andhad sporter front and rear sights and a round cocking piece. I wish he hadn't given that rifle away.
 
I really like that rifle, it has a very interesting look to it. I also think you should keep it, as you never know if you're going to want it again down the road.
I'd easily pay $250 for it if the barrel wasn't shot out, although it should be worth more.
 
It's definitely a cadet rifle, can just see remnants of yellow around the nosecap. The battered stock looks very normal to me for a well used rifle, particularly a cadet rifle that's probably done an awful lot if range work. The bruising along the stock just adjacent to the action is usually always evident on cadet rifles from being placed down on benches and hard surfaces without much regard. Also the serial number stamped vertically into the butt is another characteristic of an Australian cadet rifle.
Note the butt is stamped R over MA over 9/47. This indicates the rifle was refurbished at that time. There's no way of knowing for certain if the butt is original to this rifle from that time, 9/47 but if it is, good chance the barrel, forend and nosecap will be unnumbered and bolt and action will be the only numbered parts, apart from the butt that was most likely numbered by a cadet unit.
I wouldn't be doing anything to clean the stock other than rubbing it down with some linseed. This tends to pull surface grime out of the stock and will revive it somewhat. The colour looks very normal for coachwood that hasnt been tampered with and aggressive cleaning will remove the original look that is very hard or near impossible to reproduce.
I like it. In Australia it would be about 450 provided the bolt is matching but its a shame the yellow band has been removed. I'd be tempted to restore the paint.
 
HarryD said:
It's definitely a cadet rifle, can just see remnants of yellow around the nosecap. The battered stock looks very normal to me for a well used rifle, particularly a cadet rifle that's probably done an awful lot if range work. The bruising along the stock just adjacent to the action is usually always evident on cadet rifles from being placed down on benches and hard surfaces without much regard. Also the serial number stamped vertically into the butt is another characteristic of an Australian cadet rifle.
Note the butt is stamped R over MA over 9/47. This indicates the rifle was refurbished at that time. There's no way of knowing for certain if the butt is original to this rifle from that time, 9/47 but if it is, good chance the barrel, forend and nosecap will be unnumbered and bolt and action will be the only numbered parts, apart from the butt that was most likely numbered by a cadet unit.
I wouldn't be doing anything to clean the stock other than rubbing it down with some linseed. This tends to pull surface grime out of the stock and will revive it somewhat. The colour looks very normal for coachwood that hasnt been tampered with and aggressive cleaning will remove the original look that is very hard or near impossible to reproduce.
I like it. In Australia it would be about 450 provided the bolt is matching but its a shame the yellow band has been removed. I'd be tempted to restore the paint.
Click to expand...


Hi A, not to hard to identify someone you're used too just by reading their posts, welcome aboard, seem like a good bunch here (just don't mention calling a M1917 a P1917 is incorrect :) )
Good to have a Lithgow guru (& not one who thinks he is because he lives there :( ) aboard.
 
Thanks for the welcome mate. My regular user name was not available here so I am using the name of a wonderful young Australian I love, my son Harry.
I've enjoyed reading the pages here over the past few weeks, looking forward to contributing more.
 
Thanks for all the great posts and info.

Just some quick questions:

1. How do I know the condition of the bore? Would it be at all helpful to backlight it and take a pic?

For what its worth, I bought it from some ex-serviceman who worked with the RCMP on firearms training. I put the word out that I was after a solid No.1 Mk.III to have as an example and to use from time to time, but I wasn't too concerned with overall collectability. Hopefully I bought what I thought he was selling!

2. No cracks, no repairs, and the whole firearm seems to be to be very solid. There is some wood discolouration and some yellow paint specks at the end; its great to know something of its history. Thanks 'HarryD'!

3. The reason for selling is that I'm at that stage in life where money is short (new family, mortgage, wife, renovations, wife, argh the pressure!) so I was thinking of using proceeds to but a new .22. I've always been around old things (I still keep a Skoda or two alive as my daily driver, and I just let go of my 73 BMW) so I just want something I can use to gain some firearms experience. There are no local ranges that support rifles, but there are a couple that are open to .22s and shotguns, plus I can use these for cheap plinking with the father-in-law. I also wouldn't mind taking something light whilst camping/RVing. With this .303, I know I just won't use it...
 
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