need bullets for 8mm Lebel and 7.35 Carcano
- Thread starter jethunter
- Start date
- Location
- Central AB
I've been using your 170gr .323 for 8mm Level, and been getting good accuracy out of it. Tradex has jacketed sized .330 that would likely work, especially given that most these bores are somewhat worn.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
DO NOT USE .330 bullets in a 8mm Lebel rifle. The bore is not .330 it is at worst .327. Worst advice I have ever heard on here and could possibly kill someone.
.323 bullets work just fine for 8mm Lebel as the first two versions (Balle M and Balle D) were .323 diameter. I personally use the 198grn PPU FMJ boattails myself with pretty good results from my M1907/15.
In regards to the 7.35 Carcano that is a odd ball diameter, I honestly don't know. Not too many people shoot that round to begin with. You might have to look into swaging a slightly larger bullet down to the proper diameter if you don't want to cast.
.323 bullets work just fine for 8mm Lebel as the first two versions (Balle M and Balle D) were .323 diameter. I personally use the 198grn PPU FMJ boattails myself with pretty good results from my M1907/15.
In regards to the 7.35 Carcano that is a odd ball diameter, I honestly don't know. Not too many people shoot that round to begin with. You might have to look into swaging a slightly larger bullet down to the proper diameter if you don't want to cast.
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IMHO you are being more than a bit dramatic here.
I have used Hornady .329 bullets in Lebel cases I have loaded almost exclusively for the past 5 years. They are very accurate. .002 OD is nothing to worry about. If you insist on loading with the bullets touching the lands it might elevate pressures at max loads. The bit of swaging we're talking about here ?????????????????????
As EL17 mentions, .323 diameter bullets work well but not always. Depends on your personal rifle.
Remember, your rifle was designed to work under pretty adverse condition and tolerances were generous. I have only loaded for one of the five Lebels chambered rifles I have for the last few years. It doesn't shoot .323 diameter bullets well but it loves the .329 bullets. I don't load to max specs but to where it shoots the best.
OP, your rifle. You should take your own advice and only shoot what you feel comfortable with. Pressure can be an issue but it can also be worked around if you use your head. If your rifle is in iffy condition etc will make a difference as well.
Let me give you a good example. I have a now deceased from old age friend that used to shoot a Moose every year for the forty odd years I knew him with a P17 Enfield. He never bought a box of ammo in the years I knew him. Why, because he had picked up a crate of WWII Axis made 8x57 Mauser ammo. It chambered in his rifle and shot minute of Moose chest out to 100m. Yes, it ruined the cases, which were Berdan primed, but he never picked up a spent case in his life. Understand, the rifle he was using had a .3085 bore. I remember measuring it because I was concerned by his practice. Didn't concern him one bit. He went on to shoot Moose/Deer/Bear/Elk/Coyotes etc with that rifle until his crate was empty then went out and bought another. This time Yugo surplus and used it until his demise at 80+.
The P17 was found by tests done by PO Ackley to be in the same strength range as the 95/98 Mausers these cartridges were considered safe for. OK, they had to be swaged down .015in and had a lot of freebore to lower the pressures. There should have been issues even then. NOPE.
You don't mention which rifle you are shooting. Check out the pressure limits of the action. They are available on the internet. In this case, your own due diligence is the only diligence that counts.
None of this is rocket science. Surplus rifles are individuals unto themselves and should be treated as such. There isn't a single answer that will fit all of them perfectly.
If you're uncomfortable don't shoot the load.
If you aren't willing to do your own due diligence, err on the side of caution.
Another example, modern 8x57 North American cartridges are deliberately loaded to around 35,000 PSI. This is to accommodate the thousands of rifles chambered for the same cartridge with .318 diameter bullets in case one is loaded in a weak rifle etc. This load is considered to be safe in all such rifles and has been offered for 75+ years. Not so in Europe. You are expected to do your own due diligence when purchasing ammo, where they load both diameters of cartridges to 47,000+PSI.
My suggestion is to load that old girl accordingly with what is available. If it shoots acceptably with .323 diameter bullets use them. If it shoots better with .330 diameter bullets use them but at lower density loadings. This is just common sense.
Think I read somewhere that shooting 310 bullets in the Ruger Mini-30 (308 barrel) 7.62x39 was found to raise pressure by 5000 psi.
Supposedly the Austrians in WWI shoot their 8x50R in the Mosin-Nagant, this would be a 323 bullet in a 314 barrel.
Supposedly the Austrians in WWI shoot their 8x50R in the Mosin-Nagant, this would be a 323 bullet in a 314 barrel.
- Location
- Central AB
Oh no, a bullet that is 3 thousands over normal!!! An in bores that generally have considerable wear already. I think you exaggerate the risk just a tad.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
That is how people get killed. It may swage down, it may blow up who is to say. Lots of variables but using a oversized jacketed bullet off the back is stupid (expecially if the OP doesn't know that a .330 bullet is too big). Recommending it is stupider as that makes you liable. You want to risk your own life that is one thing, but recommending it to others is another thing all together.
If you do your research you would also know that a rifle has to be marked 'N' for it to be shot safely with the .327 dia bullets. The French did a massive refurbishment program around that conversion so clearly they thought it was a big deal and that was just uping the diameter of the bullet from .323 to .327. Bringing that diameter up another 3 thou is a massive difference in terms of pressure.
- Location
- Central AB
Well I know Jethunter very well. I know he is well aware the bullet would be 3 thousands over, and would need to start loads quite conservatively. He is a very experienced loader, and is quite aware how much bullets can swage down, and how to slug a barrel.. To a novice loader I might have pointed out more of this, but is not necessary with jet.
But consider for a second that people routinely shoot steel core .310 bullets out .308 barrels. 2 thousands over, and a steel core. Personally I wouldn't, but I know it can be done safely. Now consider shooting a lead core bullet 3 thousands over size. The bullets swages down much easier than the steel core. That coupled with the generous throats, and throat erosion on most these rifles tells me it "would likely work". Notice I didn't say it does work, only that it likely would. Of course common sense dictates starting low with loads in a situation like this.
I reload for over 30 calibers Currently, many of them obscure, so have a fair amount of experience in what can be done. Loading for 8mm Lebel, 8x50r Hungarian, 8x56r, Over 40+ years of doing this I've never popped a primer, split a case etc. I'm also very versed in developing smokeless loads for black powder antiques. So have a pretty good handle on pressure signs, as does Jethunter.
Nothing against someone who always stays within published data and components, especially if they don't have the experience to safely stray from that data. It's a good and safe policy. But many of us have loaded quite safely, we'll outside those boundaries.
You will also notice I didn't say I had tried the .330 bullets, but did use .323 cast bullets with good results. It's up to the individual loader to know their particular rifle, and it's actual bore size, and make informed decisions on what will work.
Thanks for the info Fargone. Bullets are for a buddy that wants to shoot a couple safe queens. 100-200 bullets would probably be a lifetime supply for him and not really worth the effort to cast. Was hoping there was a source for ready made bullets but will try the .323 - 170gr in the 8mm.
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- Location
- Central AB
Where did you locate them Jet? I wouldn't mind trying them myself.
i bought a lee mold for the lebel, will have to look it up when i get home. will be casting up some hard lead ones very soon. the weather has been getting better for garage time.
