Need help choosing my shot gun for bear protection and some hunting
- Thread starter stoop14
- Start date
hey stoop, I'm fairly new here too and it took me a while to figure out how to search the forums. If you go to Search, advance search, type "bear" or "defence" scroll down to "find posts from" go 6 months. You'll find what you're looking for.
You have to be careful what you ask here because some of these guys love to haze rather than help.
peace...
You have to be careful what you ask here because some of these guys love to haze rather than help.
peace...
1st shotgun
hi there, well from my past experiences id always use whatever shotgun i had on hand, either an old single shot or double pump or semi, to me anything that sticks around after the first sound of a shotgun going off, deserves to die,lol, but honestly id look for a pump shotgun, like a mossberg 535, they can handle the newer 3.5" magnum loads, and can also shoot 2 3/4, and 3" loads as well, my woods walking gun is a winchester 1200 pump, only chambered fro 2 3/4" shells.It has interchanging chokes, but i leave the modified tube in all the time, it works great with lead, steel and buckshot and slug loads
check the local gunshops, you should be able to pick up a decent pump for 250-350$
hi there, well from my past experiences id always use whatever shotgun i had on hand, either an old single shot or double pump or semi, to me anything that sticks around after the first sound of a shotgun going off, deserves to die,lol, but honestly id look for a pump shotgun, like a mossberg 535, they can handle the newer 3.5" magnum loads, and can also shoot 2 3/4, and 3" loads as well, my woods walking gun is a winchester 1200 pump, only chambered fro 2 3/4" shells.It has interchanging chokes, but i leave the modified tube in all the time, it works great with lead, steel and buckshot and slug loads
check the local gunshops, you should be able to pick up a decent pump for 250-350$
If you are going to use this gun for hunting, why are you leaning towards a short gun? If you are using it for wing shooting, a short shotty has all the handling qualityies of a brick. If your gun has tubes, it should not ever be shot without tubes. Rifled slugs and buck shot can be shot in any smooth bore.
Really all you need to do is walk into any gun store and go to the short shotty section and pick something that is in your price range. Most important, the bear will not know this is your first shotty and even care what tube or barrel length you are shooting at him with.
I may be different, but I never get tired of these bear gun threads
This forum hasn't been around for anywhere near 2 years. Way to be a #### to a newb though!
Wingshooting and bear defense are two quite different shooting activities.
Wingshooting means a moving target in the air. It requires gun movement, shooting ahead of the target and keeping a visual focus on the target not on the front sight.
Bear defense means a target on the ground, stationary or moving toward you and you shoot AT the target while keeping a visual focus on the front sight of your shotgun. In this regard it is more like rifle or pistol shooting.
So the answer as noted in a previous post is a gun with two barrels. A good choice is the Remington 870 Express combo. It has a longer, vent rib barrel with a bead sight and choke tubes for wingshooting and a shorter, rifle sighted barrel for bear defense and assorted other tacticool amusments.
Wingshooting means a moving target in the air. It requires gun movement, shooting ahead of the target and keeping a visual focus on the target not on the front sight.
Bear defense means a target on the ground, stationary or moving toward you and you shoot AT the target while keeping a visual focus on the front sight of your shotgun. In this regard it is more like rifle or pistol shooting.
So the answer as noted in a previous post is a gun with two barrels. A good choice is the Remington 870 Express combo. It has a longer, vent rib barrel with a bead sight and choke tubes for wingshooting and a shorter, rifle sighted barrel for bear defense and assorted other tacticool amusments.
Yes.
Ahsan Ahmed
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Take it easy!
Hello stoop,
As suggested by another poster, further to conducting a search on the particular topic - you may also consult the Tacticool Shotgun forum for ideas on the type of shotgun that you may possibly have in mind.
Nevertheless, in addition to what has already been suggested, you may wish to inspect the combo 870 pump shotguns currently offered by Remington, as an example.
One of those combo models is available with a short smoothbore barrel (equipped with iron sights) and generally a fixed IC choke.....this bbl has primary been designed for use with slugs, however, buckshot and/or bird shot may also be used.
The longer (also a smoothbore) barrel in the package is generally equipped with screw-in Rem Choke(s), however, the bbl could also be used for birdshot, buckshot or slugs. Needless to mention, it is critical to have that screw-in choke in place prior to using the bbl otherwise one would certainly risk damaging the bbl.
In the case of barrel(s) with fixed choke there is no such concern but there is a small caveat. An important thing to keep in mind - when using steel shot (for Waterfowl) it is also essential to ensure that the appropriate choke constriction (size of the opening at the muzzle) is used - regardless of whether the shotgun barrel has a fixed or screw-in choke.
You will agree
, that generally for 95% of folks, who take much interest in discussing plus envisaging various ways and means of relentless Bear defence (among few other types of defences ) - the acts are at best a very fine state of reverie that doesn't proceed further beyond blasting empty water bottles, watermellons etc Having said all that, should a person belong to the remaining 5% - then you must agree that that individual would need to become HIGHLY PROFICIENT with his/her firearm of choice whatever that may be and must be able to FULLY COMPREHEND what potential situation(s) he/she may encounter - because the difference is there may possibly be no pleasant awakening unlike the case of daydreams.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The two most commonly suggested shotguns for defensive work are the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870. A good example of either gun is reliable and resistant to damage from hard use. These guns have the advantage of a large selection of additional barrels available from either the manufacturer or from after market sources. I like the idea of screw in chokes as they make the barrel thicker near the muzzle, or extend slightly beyond the muzzle, and protect it from dings if the barrel bumps a rock or other hard object.
I would stay with a smooth bore gun rather than choosing a rifled barrel, and I would not choose a barrel so short that it reduced the length of your magazine. While a bear problem is most likely going to be solved with one or two shots, more ammo in the gun is comforting. On the flip side of that coin, I would not choose a gun with a long extended magazine. I didn't always think that way, so I carry a Mossberg 590 that is heavier and slower to use than would be optimal. Five rounds in the magazine is about right, and if a one round adaptor is necessary to achieve that, they are available for the 870. There are features on the Mossberg I prefer to the Remington, such as the position of the action release, and the fact that the ejector, and cartridge stops are not riveted in place.
Pump guns are only one option though, and the semi-auto for many people is a better choice. Gas guns and recoil operated guns have the advantage of self cycling, so when you are shooting under stress, there is no chance that you will short stroke the gun, which effectively takes it out of action as the round that is released from the magazine and is on the elevator is blocked by the fired shell that has failed to eject. Additionally, the semi-auto has a rigid forend which provides a more stable platform compared to the wobbly forend if you can sling up for the shot. There is no reliability advantage of one action over the other, beyond the fact that the semi-auto is not dependent on the shooter to cycle. If there is a disadvantage it is that the action must be manually operated if you need to select load less lethal ammunition. The Remington 1100/11-87s are reliable guns, but if your pockets are deeper you might prefer a Benelli, which seems to be the stylish choice at the moment. A pal of mine recently bought an M-2, and it appears to be a well made, light weight, handy shotgun that will lend itself to bear work quite nicely.
Which ever gun is chosen, beyond marksmanship, reloading and "slug select" are essential skills to master. There may come times when the slug you have in the chamber is not prudent for the conditions and you have to switch to buckshot or vise-versa. There maybe times when using a lethal ammunition is not necessary or prudent and you wish to load a less-lethal round. Switching loads in mid-action has come to be known as "slug-select." LEO shotguns normally have a buckshot round loaded in the chamber under normal use, but when a specific threat requires the shooter switch to a single projectile, he must eject the shot cartridge and load the slug, and the intricacies of each type of action determines the best way of accomplishing this. In the wilderness, the situation is opposite to that of LEOs. Your gun would normally be loaded with slugs and you would have to "select" shot or "select" a less-lethal round to solve your specific problem if the use of a slug was inappropriate.
Which ever gun you choose, it must be 100% reliable and any failure must be addressed before you can again depend upon that gun. I prefer to have a shorter than normal LOP on my defensive guns. This is so that when I am wearing warm bulky clothing the butt doesn't get hung up as I shoulder it. Besides, most folks can manage to shoot short stocked guns easier than they can ones that are too long, and a stock that is too long magnifies the feel of recoil in addition to making the gun slower to use.
Because the defensive bear gun is most often going to be shot with slugs, rifle sights are a valuable feature of your shotgun. In fact you should view the shotgun as less like a fowling piece and more like a powerful short range rifle. A ghost ring and post sight is the fastest sighting system available to us at this time. It is faster than a plain bead which requires you to carefully position the bead on the top center of the receiver, and it is faster than open sights which require you to shift your focus between two sights at different distances from your eye. The ghost ring allows you to see the post in the center of the aperture without looking at the ring so all you have to do it place the post on the target, pull your focus back to the post and press the trigger. Speaking of sights and visibility, a flashlight that is attached to the shotgun allows you to make rapid target acquisition in the dark.
If folks are going to carry guns for defense purposes, they might as well get good information to base their choices on. Simply referring to all short shotguns as garbage guns or suggesting that they simply carry the guns they normally hunt with does not supply them with good or even useful information. If folks are tired of bear defense threads, or simply don't like them, then perhaps they just shouldn't post on them. As for me, I find self defensive one of the more interesting aspects of gun ownership, and as a group, unrestricted gun ownership should be the goal for each of us. There are no good guns or bad guns, as guns have no will of their own; but some guns are more useful under some circumstances than others, and some gun accessories are more useful in some circumstances than others. Spending money helps make our little world go round, and the bigger the part that guns play in the economy, the louder our voices will be.
If you shoot any steel or lead shot through a Rifled Barrel you chance wrecking it.
Shooting steel or lead shot through a rifled slub barrel isn't recommended. Buck shot is typically some alloy of lead which may or may not be gilded, copper-clad, etc... I don't know of any steel buckshot.
Shooting any sort of steel shot care must be taken to use a barrel rated for steel. Any new shotgun on the market should be okay, but check your owners manual. You generally want to use a choke one step more open in restriction than if you were shooting lead. i.e., if you were still allowed to shoot #2 lead at waterfowl, you'd typically opt for a full choke. Shooting #2 steel, you'd opt for a Modified choke.
Shooting slugs and buckshot, you generally want a very open choke, either cylinder bore or improved cylinder. Shooting slugs out of a barrel with a tighter restriction is doable, but you risk damage to your shotgun, possibly yourself and your accuracy will be affected negatively. Long story short, buy the right choke and use it.
If you want to use your shotgun for both bear defence and upland game/waterfowl, you best bet would be to look at buying one of those Remington 870 'combo' packages, or picking up an 870 and purchasing a second barrel for it in the EE or from your dealer.
For bear defense and hunting bunnies in close cover, alder beds, etc...I've had good results with an 18" bbl 870. Not a great choice for ducks, geese or partridge hunting, however.
Probably the best factory compromise bbl length is the 26" bbl for the 870. short enough so that it isn't totally clumsy in close cover/bear defense, but still long enough for you to have acceptable wingshooting results, although you at a much greater disadvantage than if you were using a 28-32" bbl. Much smoother swing and follow-through=better accuracy.
If it were me, I'd pick up a second barrel. It takes less than a minute to swap them out and requires no tools.
Shooting any sort of steel shot care must be taken to use a barrel rated for steel. Any new shotgun on the market should be okay, but check your owners manual. You generally want to use a choke one step more open in restriction than if you were shooting lead. i.e., if you were still allowed to shoot #2 lead at waterfowl, you'd typically opt for a full choke. Shooting #2 steel, you'd opt for a Modified choke.
Shooting slugs and buckshot, you generally want a very open choke, either cylinder bore or improved cylinder. Shooting slugs out of a barrel with a tighter restriction is doable, but you risk damage to your shotgun, possibly yourself and your accuracy will be affected negatively. Long story short, buy the right choke and use it.
If you want to use your shotgun for both bear defence and upland game/waterfowl, you best bet would be to look at buying one of those Remington 870 'combo' packages, or picking up an 870 and purchasing a second barrel for it in the EE or from your dealer.
For bear defense and hunting bunnies in close cover, alder beds, etc...I've had good results with an 18" bbl 870. Not a great choice for ducks, geese or partridge hunting, however.
Probably the best factory compromise bbl length is the 26" bbl for the 870. short enough so that it isn't totally clumsy in close cover/bear defense, but still long enough for you to have acceptable wingshooting results, although you at a much greater disadvantage than if you were using a 28-32" bbl. Much smoother swing and follow-through=better accuracy.
If it were me, I'd pick up a second barrel. It takes less than a minute to swap them out and requires no tools.
Regular rifled slugs and buck shot are designed to be shot with any smooth bore including those with a full choke. Often buck shot patterns better with tighter chokes than more open chokes. Rifled slugs and choke are not an exact science when it comes to accuracy. In individual barrels some are more accurate with tighter chokes and some are better with more open chokes.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I don't think you would damage a rifled barrel by shooting buckshot through it, but the fouling would be terrible, and the patterns would be badly distorted and unpredictable. If you shoot cracker shells in a rifled tube it will cause them to explode in the barrel which is hard on the ears and makes a mess inside the bore, to say nothing of raising the danger of a partial blockage should you need to followup with a lethal round. Just to be clear, traditional lead shotgun slugs of the Foster, Challenger or Brenneke styles needs no rifling in the barrel to assist stability. The slug's nose heavy design keeps it pointed straight. The rifling grooves or veins on the side of the slug do much more to reduce resistance should the slug need to pass through a tight choke than they do to assist in stability in flight. A slug will safely pass through any choke up to a standard full choke, although the best accuracy is usually observed with an open choke.
I agree with X-man, a 26" tube makes a nice compromise length for a general purpose shotgun. The way I see it though, self defense indicates a specific requirement rather than a general one. You wouldn't for example want your waterfowl gun to wear rifle sights, yet a bead diminishes the usefulness of your bear gun. As such a dedicated slug barrel plus a dedicated waterfowl barrel is a better way to go. If your bear gun doubles as an upland gun, choke tubes allow you to switch between modified and cylinder bore for the days you want to use bird shot. If you object to rifle sights on your bunny gun, a third barrel, perhaps one with a 26" barrel, could be chosen for upland shooting.
I agree with X-man, a 26" tube makes a nice compromise length for a general purpose shotgun. The way I see it though, self defense indicates a specific requirement rather than a general one. You wouldn't for example want your waterfowl gun to wear rifle sights, yet a bead diminishes the usefulness of your bear gun. As such a dedicated slug barrel plus a dedicated waterfowl barrel is a better way to go. If your bear gun doubles as an upland gun, choke tubes allow you to switch between modified and cylinder bore for the days you want to use bird shot. If you object to rifle sights on your bunny gun, a third barrel, perhaps one with a 26" barrel, could be chosen for upland shooting.
