Need help for marking on 2 Lee Enfields

kohr varik

Regular
Rating - 100%
94   0   0
Location
Laval, Quebec
Thanks for all that can help me with that.

2 Lee Enfield No4 mkI
The serial of this one is weird because of the Receiver, what the heck is those marking ? There is no US Property on the receiver.
89cc6f43.jpg

bad522b8.jpg

a3ca1d70.jpg



And for this one what's "B" stands for ? there's no L under like Longbranch
cbe060e9.jpg

042edb67.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top rifle doesn't have the US Property mark because it isn't a Savage made rifle.
The B would indicate BSA.
 
The receiver ring markings are definately out of the ordinary. I see a British style bolt head release, not Long Branch or Savage. The backsight "B" marking could be a badly struck L under B for Long Branch. The other thing that gets my eye is the deeply grooved striker. A previous owner may have ground or filed deeper grooves.

So the question to the collective wisdom is, would a police force or paramilitary force has stamped those receiver markings?
 
It's possible the sight is not matching and that part is BSA made.

I'm not an expert but is correct to have "No.4 Mk1" written in scrawly electropencil like that? It makes me suspicious because the "7171" digits are nice and even as it stamped, but everything else is handwritten.
 
BSA Shirley plant

POL OLD would be POLIZEI OLDENBURG, meaning a British-made rifle supplied to German police in the immediate post-War period.

Hope this helps.
.
 
Last edited:
The receiver ring markings are definately out of the ordinary. I see a British style bolt head release, not Long Branch or Savage. The backsight "B" marking could be a badly struck L under B for Long Branch. The other thing that gets my eye is the deeply grooved striker. A previous owner may have ground or filed deeper grooves.

So the question to the collective wisdom is, would a police force or paramilitary force has stamped those receiver markings?

The bolt release mechanism is not exclusively British. It's the No.4Mk.1 design. The Long Branch and Savage plants made them like that until they came up with the modification to eliminate it, which gets the designation No.4Mk.1*.
 
Last edited:
.
The "B" on the rear sight is not Long Branch, but rather a British made sight.

You are also missing the ejector screw from the left side of the action. There should also be a small retaining pin on the left side of the shaft that holds the rear sight to the receiver. Turn it so that the hole lines up with the groove.

The action looks a bit rough, (Wartime production ?) or possibly it has been scrubbed and reworked (electro pencilled ).
.
 
BSA Shirley plant

POL OLD would be POLIZEI OLDENBURG, meaning a British-made rifle supplied to German police in the immediate post-War period.

Hope this helps.
.

Is there anything about .303s you DON'T know Smellie? I hope to be as knowledgeable as you some day.
 
If you bought it at the Montreal show yesterday, I looked at it and I seem to remember it had the M47 (BSA) mark on the buttsocket. I almost bought it because of the P.O. markings, but the varnished stock and the price made me changed my mind.
 
If you bought it at the Montreal show yesterday, I looked at it and I seem to remember it had the M47 (BSA) mark on the buttsocket. I almost bought it because of the P.O. markings, but the varnished stock and the price made me changed my mind.

Yep it's this one. He made a price I couln'd resist ( <300$ ) and those marking was so unusual, maybe she need a little bit of care. The receiver is in Grease and well preserve also. Barrel is VG.
 
The electro pencil marking is not unusual. The serial number will be on the back of the bolt handle and on the receiver ring. If these have been polished up (linished in British ordnance terminology), then the number would be repeated on the sidewall. That sight is the more desireable adjustable model, and not the as issued two hole flip version.

In my understanding of British No.4 rifle production, the exception is the rule. To repeat an old expression from the Jouster dot com forum, 'never say never when talking about Enfields'. The Brits found themselves in 1939 with insufficient production capacity for the tools and equipment of mass warfare. They shopped abroad as much as they could afford, which soon became a favourable credit program called Lend Lease. In return the US and Canada had inspectors at the UK plants making damn sure they were using everything they had to the maximum efficiency. All raw materials were centrally controlled, which led to the famous pictures of scrap metal drives for aluminum and steel. Little shops that made table legs were ordered, not asked, to make rifle stocks. Plants with machine tools were given drawings, materials, jigs and gauges, and told when to expect the inspectors' visit. So, as long as parts met the specifications they were shipped to central plants for just-in-time assembly. The less of their precious capacity was concentrated for the Germans to bomb, the better. After the war and everyone took a deep breath, the companies could afford to look back at their production and give it the extra attention it needed to be truly presentable.

I suspect the rifle at question was sent for Factory Thorough Repair or FTR, and that is when the electro pencil engraving was done. It just never got the FTR markings.
 
Very cool rifle! Those POL OLD markings are very neat, and likely rare!

Indeed :). but rare like they make 10 000 of those or only 800.
This rarety add 50$ to a normal BSA or 250$ ?
very hard to find any info on the net.

I wonder how Smellie have found information on that marking, he's such a reference.

A Smelliepedia :)
 
Back
Top Bottom