Need help identifying a Semi-Sporterized 1942 Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1

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drublic

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Hey, I picked up this Semi-Sporterized 1942 Lee–Enfield No.4 Mk.1 recently and was wondering if anyone could provide some more information on it. It seems to be semi-sporterized in a jungle carbine style but I noticed there is only a single rivet on the right side of the forward band and that kinda threw me off.

This is also my first used firearm and the barrel/rifling seem to be in great shape but I'm not to sure about the bolt (pics included)

I was also wondering about the overall condition.

Thanks for any help!

https://imgur.com/a/F6ntNAo
(pictures in link as I cant actually post pictures yet)
 
You have a No. 4 Mk. I rifle that was reworked by Santa Fe, a business in California, to resemble a No.5 Mk. I (so called Jungle Carbine), when the No.5 was a better seller than the No. 4. The name Jungle Carbine was cooked up by a US seller. Looks to be in fine condition, and if the bore is as good as the exterior, it should shoot well.
One thing that is unusual about your rifle is that it has the smooth cocking piece without a half #### notch. This was a wartime expedient, appropriate for the 1942 date of your rifle (does the bolt serial match the rifle?). The design was determined to be unsafe, and these were vigorously culled out by British armourers. Seldom seen as a result.
 
Your rifle is interesting, but neither a No.4 or a No.5. I would suggest that you leave it as is (except for the appropriate TLC). Keep the story intact without trying to undo a factory level change. Too much has happened to be easily recovered.

As Tiriaq says, your cocking piece is unusual.
 
tiriaq said:
You have a No. 4 Mk. I rifle that was reworked by Santa Fe, a business in California, to resemble a No.5 Mk. I (so called Jungle Carbine), when the No.5 was a better seller than the No. 4. The name Jungle Carbine was cooked up by a US seller. Looks to be in fine condition, and if the bore is as good as the exterior, it should shoot well.
One thing that is unusual about your rifle is that it has the smooth cocking piece without a half #### notch. This was a wartime expedient, appropriate for the 1942 date of your rifle (does the bolt serial match the rifle?). The design was determined to be unsafe, and these were vigorously culled out by British armourers. Seldom seen as a result.
Click to expand...

That is super interesting and very cool to hear. I would have never figured that out so thank you very much, I really appreciate you taking the time. I did hours of research trying to find this exact rifle and had no luck at all. I am no expert but the bore looks to be in great condition. Think it was in storage for a very long time. I will add some more pics of the bolt and try for the bore. And yeah I checked to see if it didn't have the half #### when I saw the cocking piece was smooth, figured I could possibly swap it out if its necessary. But also figured I wouldn't as I would never #### the rifle by the cocking piece itself. But I would go by whatever people would recommend.

Thank you again!
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
Your rifle is interesting, but neither a No.4 or a No.5. I would suggest that you leave it as is (except for the appropriate TLC). Keep the story intact without trying to undo a factory level change. Too much has happened to be easily recovered.

As Tiriaq says, your cocking piece is unusual.
Click to expand...

Thank you and yeah its really interesting. When I saw it in the store I had to grab it, I have never seen a sporterized Enfield/No.4 like it. And 100% agree, gotta keep that history and honestly I love the look of it.

What would you recommend for some TLC on it? I also noticed the bolt is browning a bit and has some pitting also.
 
drublic said:
Thank you and yeah its really interesting. When I saw it in the store I had to grab it, I have never seen a sporterized Enfield/No.4 like it. And 100% agree, gotta keep that history and honestly I love the look of it.

What would you recommend for some TLC on it? I also noticed the bolt is browning a bit and has some pitting also.
Click to expand...

Wipe the steel with oil to remove dust and any fouling. Powder solvent through the bore to check for fouling left behind from firing. Linseed oil on the stock. The crystalized finish is Parkerizing and will soak in oil. I happen to like wiping with Automatic Transmission Fluid because it is stiff and not slippery to immediately run off, and it is cheap.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Wipe the steel with oil to remove dust and any fouling. Powder solvent through the bore to check for fouling left behind from firing. Linseed oil on the stock. The crystalized finish is Parkerizing and will soak in oil. I happen to like wiping with Automatic Transmission Fluid because it is stiff and not slippery to immediately run off, and it is cheap.
Click to expand...

Awesome, ty so much. Is the Automatic Transmission Fluid used as the lubricant?

And any tips on cleaning the bolt? Or just do a light clean like the rest of the rifle. I don't want to take anything off.
 
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tiriaq said:
...snip...
One thing that is unusual about your rifle is that it has the smooth cocking piece without a half #### notch. This was a wartime expedient, appropriate for the 1942 date of your rifle (does the bolt serial match the rifle?). The design was determined to be unsafe, and these were vigorously culled out by British armourers. Seldom seen as a result.
Click to expand...

This is what I always believed as well, however I have a 1944 Brit No4T rifle which retained one of these cocking pieces - and it was restocked in the 1950s, so I'm not sure how big a priority it was to replace these if they were working.

On another rifle, I recently found and replaced a No4 Safety manufactured without the threaded collar to lock the cocking piece.
 
drublic said:
Awesome, ty so much. Is the Automatic Transmission Fluid used as the lubricant?

And any tips on cleaning the bolt? Or just do a light clean like the rest of the rifle. I don't want to take anything off.
Click to expand...

ATF works as a lubricant, but primarily it evaporates more slowly than traditional oil. I consider it as a barrier layer to air exposure and therefore limits rusting or corrosion.
 
When our grandson was old enough to start with .22 rifles, I made up a cleaning "kit" for him - inexpensive 3 section aluminum rod, bunch of patches, jag and bore brushes for .22 barrel - and small bottle of ATF as "solvent" - use it on everything - outside, inside, etc. I might have included a new "firm" tooth brush from drug store. An automotive mechanic acquaintance advises ATF does have some detergent properties - based on his experience opening up numerous automatic transmissions - seems to "cling" well - as good, I think, as many other things sold as "gun cleaners". Idea was to help the young fellow appreciate that cleaning and re-lubing was a part of keeping his rifle going well - he was actually starting with a single shot that I had bought new for his Dad, when his Dad was about 10. And he did then know, that the "magic juice" in the little bottle was plain old ATF.
 
drublic said:
Awesome, ty so much. Is the Automatic Transmission Fluid used as the lubricant?

And any tips on cleaning the bolt? Or just do a light clean like the rest of the rifle. I don't want to take anything off.
Click to expand...

"cleaning the bolt" - remove it from rifle - wipe down the bolt exterior and where it rides within the rifle - should feel nice and smooth to cycle. Mauser and Win 70 usually easier to dismantle further to get the firing pin and it's spring out where you can see it - much written "how to do" for Lee Enfield on the milsurp website - look for articles by Peter Laidler - no doubt has been written up by others, as well. Is typical, I found, for some makers to coat firing pin spring or to fill the bolt body with grease - maybe a preservative? - in cold Sask hunting seasons, that grease often "jells" or gets "stiff" - slowing down that firing pin - can get misfires in the cold. I usually dismantle completely - once - use solvent to remove all grease - I used to use gasoline as solvent - now I use "paint thinner" Varsol - re-assemble and paint all with 0W20 motor oil - just to inhibit rust forming - I do not use any rifles enough to warrant lubrication for "anti-friction" purposes - except my bolt action rifles get a small dab of "white" grease on the cocking cam, and on the rear of the bolt locking lugs.

"wiping down" - typical here to use discarded dish towels - cut maybe 15 cm x 15 cm square - or use folded up paper towel - dribble on a half dozen drops of motor oil or ATF - wad it up and let set - like over night - just about enough "lube" left behind when wiped on metal to clean it. I found oil and grease about a "magnet" for dust and crap - so, to a point, I use it sparingly. Tends to require periodic inspection - which was never done among household guns when I was growing up - was several that I am sure never saw a drop of oil or a wipe down for 10 years or more - but not likely to have been fired 30 times in that period either. WAY more damage done to them by the corrosion that formed, versus "using" them - did not seem to be an issue for $15 surplus 303's back then.

I have read that some types of semi-auto rifles want to be "soaking, dripping wet" with oil to function properly - I have no experience with those.
 
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Potashminer said:
"cleaning the bolt" - remove it from rifle - wipe down the bolt exterior and where it rides within the rifle - should feel nice and smooth to cycle. Mauser and Win 70 usually easier to dismantle further to get the firing pin and it's spring out where you can see it - much written "how to do" for Lee Enfield on the milsurp website - look for articles by Peter Laidler - no doubt has been written up by others, as well. Is typical, I found, for some makers to coat firing pin spring or to fill the bolt body with grease - maybe a preservative? - in cold Sask hunting seasons, that grease often "jells" or gets "stiff" - slowing down that firing pin - can get misfires in the cold. I usually dismantle completely - once - use solvent to remove all grease - I used to use gasoline as solvent - now I use "paint thinner" Varsol - re-assemble and paint all with 0W20 motor oil - just to inhibit rust forming - I do not use any rifles enough to warrant lubrication for "anti-friction" purposes - except my bolt action rifles get a small dab of "white" grease on the cocking cam, and on the rear of the bolt locking lugs.

"wiping down" - typical here to use discarded dish towels - cut maybe 15 cm x 15 cm square - or use folded up paper towel - dribble on a half dozen drops of motor oil or ATF - wad it up and let set - like over night - just about enough "lube" left behind when wiped on metal to clean it. I found oil and grease about a "magnet" for dust and crap - so, to a point, I use it sparingly. Tends to require periodic inspection - which was never done among household guns when I was growing up - was several that I am sure never saw a drop of oil or a wipe down for 10 years or more - but not likely to have been fired 30 times in that period either. WAY more damage done to them by the corrosion that formed, versus "using" them - did not seem to be an issue for $15 surplus 303's back then.

I have read that some types of semi-auto rifles want to be "soaking, dripping wet" with oil to function properly - I have no experience with those.
Click to expand...

That is perfect, thank you. I do have a few of those items already but I will be sure to make a list and get what I'm missing. And that story you posted before was great, thanks for the help and taking the time. I will be sure to look over it as much as possible and I have a semi-auto myself and was always recommended a thin layer and have had no issues. And thanks again!
 
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