Need help with 338 Lapua zeroing at 100

[LordEvilPepper]

Why zero @ 200yds?

a .338 should be a 300m zero

its a long range round, the round doesn't even fully stabilize till past 200m if its actually ramped up to its potential. its still corkscrewing in flight. Even some .308 heavy hitters like berger 168 VLD don't "settle down" till past 200m.

you shoot at 100m and chase a zero thinking the gun is shooting ####, you push out to 300m and its sub moa.

that round it isn't even a challenge to hit at 300m... at 500m I was hitting a pop can once doped in.

thats .338lm at 300m with a good load out of a savage LRH

 

[Cummins]

It's also not a deer rifle that you are trying to get max point blank range out of, I zero at one hundred I do not chase my zero I know it's good and weather factors are min if I have time I will range and dial it seems to work alright and is a common practice I believe.

 

[LordEvilPepper]

It's also not a deer rifle that you are trying to get max point blank range out of, I zero at one hundred I do not chase my zero I know it's good and weather factors are min if I have time I will range and dial it seems to work alright and is a common practice I believe.

100m is not a common .338lm zero at all.
you run into so many scope issues at longer range if you choose a 100m zero

if you zero at 100m you will have to run out of adjustment as your longer range dope will require more clicks to get to. its that whole bullet rainbow thing. A .338 is shooting stupid flat out to 300-400 m so if you zero at 100m the round you're already running out half of your scopes adjustments before the round even realy starts to drop. If you zero at 300m (so POI is above the site line any closer) you end up with a ton more play and barely need to run the dials at all under 500m.
It can make the difference of needing moa base to even get the scope on target at 1200m or comfortably dialing in the scope with a flat moa base at 1200m.
math aside, you basicaly trade a higher POI at close range that only cost you a couple clicks at 300m to adjust so you have an extra 30-50 by the time you hit 1600m

 

[Horse96]

100m is not a common .338lm zero at all.
you run into so many scope issues at longer range if you choose a 100m zero

if you zero at 100m you will have to run out of adjustment as your longer range dope will require more clicks to get to. its that whole bullet rainbow thing. A .338 is shooting stupid flat out to 300-400 m so if you zero at 100m the round you're already running out half of your scopes adjustments before the round even realy starts to drop. If you zero at 300m (so POI is above the site line any closer) you end up with a ton more play and barely need to run the dials at all under 500m.
It can make the difference of needing moa base to even get the scope on target at 1200m or comfortably dialing in the scope with a flat moa base at 1200m.
math aside, you basicaly trade a higher POI at close range that only cost you a couple clicks at 300m to adjust so you have an extra 30-50 by the time you hit 1600m

I don't think this is an issue: that you'll run out of adjustment using a 300y zero. Whether you zero at 100 or 300, given the same base, the scope will be adjusted the same. If you have a 100 y zero and drop, say 2 moa to get a 300y zero, the scope travels the same distance. But, if you use a 30 moa base, you get more on the drop end of adjustment range. So, if you're shooting far, past 1000y, give up, depending on your scopes overall travel range the ability to 100y zero so you can shoot longer

However, the razor has lots of adjustment, so using a 30 moa base and a 100y zero, is having your cake and eating it.

 

[cr5]

Why zero @ 200yds?

200 is minimum (300 is better), The round doesn't really stabilize till 200yds, Both my 338's were more consistent past 200yds, I'd get weird inconsistent groups at 100 that settled in at 200yds, I did all load testing and development at 200 or 300 yards.

You can zero at whatever range you want but I just don't see any point at all shooting a 338 Lapua at any distance less than 200 yards, if you're going to buy a rifle capable of 1500+ yards that costs $2+ per squeeze why would you waste time and money shooting at 100 yards? May as well just shoot a rimfire for 100yds.

100m is not a common .338lm zero at all.
you run into so many scope issues at longer range if you choose a 100m zero

if you zero at 100m you will have to run out of adjustment as your longer range dope will require more clicks to get to. its that whole bullet rainbow thing. A .338 is shooting stupid flat out to 300-400 m so if you zero at 100m the round you're already running out half of your scopes adjustments before the round even realy starts to drop. If you zero at 300m (so POI is above the site line any closer) you end up with a ton more play and barely need to run the dials at all under 500m.
It can make the difference of needing moa base to even get the scope on target at 1200m or comfortably dialing in the scope with a flat moa base at 1200m.
math aside, you basicaly trade a higher POI at close range that only cost you a couple clicks at 300m to adjust so you have an extra 30-50 by the time you hit 1600m

I don't think this is an issue: that you'll run out of adjustment using a 300y zero. Whether you zero at 100 or 300, given the same base, the scope will be adjusted the same. If you have a 100 y zero and drop, say 2 moa to get a 300y zero, the scope travels the same distance. But, if you use a 30 moa base, you get more on the drop end of adjustment range. So, if you're shooting far, past 1000y, give up, depending on your scopes overall travel range the ability to 100y zero so you can shoot longer

However, the razor has lots of adjustment, so using a 30 moa base and a 100y zero, is having your cake and eating it.

You're both kinda missing the point or maybe I'm just missing part of explanation a little.
The distance you zero at has nothing to do with how far you will be able to shoot using the turrets to dial in your correction. You still only have so many clicks of elevation correction either way from where it zero's. What you're doing for extreme long range is using a canted scope base so that when you zero your scope you are at the lower end of your adjustment range so that when you go long you have lots of MOA/MILS of adjustment left in your turrets. If your scope has enough elevation adjustment you can use a 30-40 moa base and have a 100 yard zero and still reach out to 1500+ yards.
I usually start with a 20 moa base then if my scope has 30 moa of travel remaining after I zero it at my desired distance I'd go buy a 40 moa base so that I am 10 moa from bottomed out when zero'd. This would give the maximum amount of elevation adjustment. If I'm mounting a scope with 100+ moa of adjustment I can start with a 30 moa base instead.
Most of the time I find that people add more scope base cant than they will ever use which is fine since it doesn't hurt anything as long as you can still get a good reliable zero at your preferred distance. I've shot over 1000 yards with a 20 moa base and still had lots of adjustment remaining.

Just remember that unless YOU and your rifle are shooting consistent half moa groups or better you're probably going to have a hard time at 1000+ yards. Work your way out to it gradually.

 

[bsand]

The brass screw and the external turret both move the reticle. Once you set your zero, and screw in the grub screws, then it's only the dial that moves the reticle and you get clicks. That's how the razor's zero stop works.

I much prefer my TT zero stop, or even SB. That seems like a PIA to adjust.

 

[Mystic Precision]

http://mysticprecision.com/2016/02/burris-xtr-signature-rings-w-inserts-long-range-goodness/

Likely the easiest and best way to shim a scope... You have control over elevation AND windage.

Centering the windage on a scope becomes paramount when using the full elevation range.

The included shims allow up to 40moa adjustment and is infinitely adjustable so you can do a combo of windage and/or elevation to suit.

I also offer bases with high cant and some custom settings but the math rarely works out so fine tuning with the rings really pay for themself.

And the rings are a lot less money then some custom rails.

They have no issue holding my SV scope and this is over 40oz of scope.

I think these are one of the most useful new product for the LR shooter to come out in years.

Jerry

 

[CanadianRouge]

Deleted

 

[Cummins]

I only confirm my zero every time it is convenient but I would point to the picture provided and say it is not very centered to be a zero target and would argue it is pointless to shoot your lapua at 300 meters I am blessed with a close spot to stretch out a good zero is needed where ever you chose to set it matters little mine is 100 yards.

 

[IvoB]

Make sure scope bases are on correct

 

[cr5]

Cr5,

I have found the issue to my problem, and yes I have read the owners manual.

I agree with you that their is no point in shooting at 100, I just stated that I wanted to zero at 100 to get it on paper to have a rough idea.

So here is where the problem lies. The vortex Gen 2 (at least mine) on the 0, the external adjustment was correct, however, on the internal zero stop, it was half way in on the adjustment scale, meaning I was only getting half of my full rotation. Anyways, I called vortex and he stated that to turn the dial all the way down, thus starting from the lowest mil graduation. This way when I'm "zeroing" - not shooting// at 100 my bullets won't be soaring past the target.

I agree with zeroing at higher meters, 100 is just to get on paper. I won't be zeroing at 100

Glad to hear you got it figured out,

Good luck

 

[Horse96]

200 is minimum (300 is better), The round doesn't really stabilize till 200yds, Both my 338's were more consistent past 200yds, I'd get weird inconsistent groups at 100 that settled in at 200yds, I did all load testing and development at 200 or 300 yards.

You can zero at whatever range you want but I just don't see any point at all shooting a 338 Lapua at any distance less than 200 yards, if you're going to buy a rifle capable of 1500+ yards that costs $2+ per squeeze why would you waste time and money shooting at 100 yards? May as well just shoot a rimfire for 100yds.





You're both kinda missing the point or maybe I'm just missing part of explanation a little.
The distance you zero at has nothing to do with how far you will be able to shoot using the turrets to dial in your correction. You still only have so many clicks of elevation correction either way from where it zero's. What you're doing for extreme long range is using a canted scope base so that when you zero your scope you are at the lower end of your adjustment range so that when you go long you have lots of MOA/MILS of adjustment left in your turrets. If your scope has enough elevation adjustment you can use a 30-40 moa base and have a 100 yard zero and still reach out to 1500+ yards.
I usually start with a 20 moa base then if my scope has 30 moa of travel remaining after I zero it at my desired distance I'd go buy a 40 moa base so that I am 10 moa from bottomed out when zero'd. This would give the maximum amount of elevation adjustment. If I'm mounting a scope with 100+ moa of adjustment I can start with a 30 moa base instead.
Most of the time I find that people add more scope base cant than they will ever use which is fine since it doesn't hurt anything as long as you can still get a good reliable zero at your preferred distance. I've shot over 1000 yards with a 20 moa base and still had lots of adjustment remaining.

Just remember that unless YOU and your rifle are shooting consistent half moa groups or better you're probably going to have a hard time at 1000+ yards. Work your way out to it gradually.

Nope, I didn't miss any point. Zeroing at 100 lets you minimize the wind error factor. Anyway, it becomes personal preference and there's no use arguing about that. The stats however, say that by going from a 1/2 moa gun to a 1 moa gun only increases the hit probability on a 10" gong at 700 yards by 8%. That us, with a 1/2 moa rifle you're hit probability by the Litz WEZ tool is 78.3%. The same target with a 1 moa rifle is 69.7%.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/04/15/how-much-does-group-size-matter

 

[cr5]

Nope, I didn't miss any point. Zeroing at 100 lets you minimize the wind error factor. Anyway, it becomes personal preference and there's no use arguing about that. The stats however, say that by going from a 1/2 moa gun to a 1 moa gun only increases the hit probability on a 10" gong at 700 yards by 8%. That us, with a 1/2 moa rifle you're hit probability by the Litz WEZ tool is 78.3%. The same target with a 1 moa rifle is 69.7%.

You're right, it simply comes down to personal preference. My point was that regardless of what range you zero your rifle at you are not changing how much elevation travel you have and you will still run out of adjustment at the same distance unless you use a canted base to optimize the use of your available travel by being able to start 20, 30 or 40 moa lower on the turret to get the same zero which leaves that much more upward travel.
Interesting that the numbers don't reflect more improvement in hit probability when increasing the accuracy of the platform by double. I would have thought it would have given more than that.

 

[6MT]

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