Need help with this Enfield!

Slim-Jim

Slim-Jim

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Iberville, Qc
Hello, I'm new to this forum, I really like it, tons of informations! I need your help to identify this .303 I got from my bro. All I know its a BSA , written '' Proved and sighted for the Mark VII .303 High Velocity Cartridge'' on the barrel. Its written Nitro Proof on the chamber. Thats all I know, theres no date on it. Shes in very good condition and I think it has been varnished by the only owner. I got the original case and sling with it. Can anyone help me please? thanks!
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And there's nothing else than "BSA" written on the right side of the butt socket?

As Gallen says, it looks like an interesting commercial sporter. Based on a No1Mk1? Or maybe even the MLE, from what I can see of the bolt? Hard to see the small pic on my screen.

Lou
 
You have an old Enfield sporter that was made on a Lee Metford action. Looks original except magazine is from a No1MK111 and the varnish finish as mentioned. PM sent. Ron
 
Hey Slim Jim,

It's not an Enfield, it's a BSA Lee Speed Sporting rifle, very rice rifle indeed.
This is not a Sporterized military rifle this is how it came out of the factory and when you want to sell it let me know.

Had one that I sold to a friend and I miss it.

JJ
 
BSA most likely assemble this rifle between 1900 and 1925..nothing done during WW1 era. It still has it's dust cover and sights. Most are generally lost by this time. This is the kind of gun I liked to get for a restoration.

Slim-Jim....do you know how long your brother had this? Or anything about its history.

Ron
 
This arm would have been made after 1910 when the MkVII ctg was introduced. A similar arm but built on the SMLE MkIII action is shown in the BSA 1927 catalogue. As it was made for the MkVII ctg the later style mag case may be original.
 
hey thanks for the answers guys! I'll try to post other pictures today. That gun cames from an old man my grandma was taking care of, than when he passed away she take this rifle from his collection ( imagine the rest... :D ) and then give it to my brother. I think it was 10 years ago. Than because Im the only one to have my licences and a year to harass him to sell me that rifle, he just tell me this week '' Take good care of it bro'' than gave it to me. :D I was planning to get it to the range this week to bring it to live again, should I or should I keep it as a collection item?
 
Slim-Jim said:
hey thanks for the answers guys! I'll try to post other pictures today. That gun cames from an old man my grandma was taking care of, than when he passed away she take this rifle from his collection ( imagine the rest... :D ) and then give it to my brother. I think it was 10 years ago. Than because Im the only one to have my licences and a year to harass him to sell me that rifle, he just tell me this week '' Take good care of it bro'' than gave it to me. :D I was planning to get it to the range this week to bring it to live again, should I or should I keep it as a collection item?
Click to expand...

Make sure the bore is good, not rusty. If you can check the headspace...good idea.

Since it was a factory sporter, hopefully it wouldn't have seen as many rounds as a military rifle...might still be pretty tight.

Nice pics btw. Looks in very nice shape.
 
Merci Louthepou, no, no plan to drill it for a scope. I've got another Lee that I got from my friend ( for 20$ :D ) and he drill the stock to be nailed on top of his fireplace :( hopefully Im taking good care of it now...
 
Go rent "the Ghost and the Darkness" - Story about Col. Patterson building a bridge across the Tsavo River.
Great book, movie wasn't bad until they introduced "Remington" played by Michael Douglas whose character didn't exist in real life.
The rifle Col. Patterson uses mostly in that film was a Lee Speed like yours.

Enjoy
 
Nice gift. Your bro loves you!

Here's my tuppence worth;

Yup, the rifle is a BSA commercial pattern carbine, not a conversion, it was made at the factory in Birmingham like that.

At one time, I had one just like it, but mine had a charger bridge and no dust cover on the bolt, otherwise identical.

If I remember correctly, the BSA catalogue showed it as a Model number four. There many options that could be selected for a rifle made to order. Metford or Enfield rifling. Carbine or rifle style bolt handle. Charger bridge. Long Lee or Short Lee style safety. There was an option of six round carbine style or ten round rifle style magazine. So your ten round mag might well be original to the rifle.

The reference on the barrel to the Mk.VII cartridge tells me that it was made after 1910. The rifle is often called a 'Lee Speed', Mr. Lee being the inventor of the box magazine and the receiver bolt set up, and Mr. Speed a Superintendant manager at the BSA factory and the registered holder of several patents for features on the rifle, eg bolt head. The requirement to mark the patent on the gun stopped around 1916 when Speed's patents expired. I don't see any markings on the metal giving acknowledgment to Speed, which helps date it.

As a rifle it is basicly a 1903 Short Lee Enfield style barrel of carbine length mounted on a Lee Metford Carbine action of the style introduced in 1894. It has express sights and would be perfect for taking on safari. The sling is a Parker type (pink webbing?) and is correct period for the carbine too.

If the bolt has numbers on the underside of the bolt handle that matches the numbers on the receiver, I would not be too concerned about headspacing. Looking at the finish wear showing on the blue of the bolt face, it would appear that the bolt head has seen only a few hundred rounds, and I would bet the bolt head is original to the gun.

Value? Yes, it is worth quite a bit ( $ four figures). It is not rare, but there are not many of them come available for sale, and there is a high demand, they are very collectable. Plus, they shoot like a charm, very fast and smooth action, light and very accurate. If you sold it, you might regret it and would have a hard time finding another in such good condition.
 
Slim-Jim. How long is the barrel? Looks to have been cut back and recrowned. The front sight is a banded BRNO....far from original. Any other modifications to the rifle? Can you put up a picture of the butt plate. Thanks. Ron
 
Wow thank you EnglishmanCa , very good explanation. Theres no marking about Speed on it. The bolt serial match with the action serial. Yesterday I brought it to my local gun shop to check with a gage if its ok to shoot with it, and no problem he says...the bolt close firmly. Heres picture for RGG7...
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Butt plate is correct....heel damage can be repaired by a skilled stock maker. Stock has been refinished and stained...hard to tell colour however it could also be brought back.

Good you had it checked for headspace by your gunsmith. I would venture to say that the bolt head has been changed as the "U" stamped on the bolt head is not correct for BSA....should be a small proof mark on the underside. You can see evidence on the bolt face that the face has been turned back to correct the headspace. It's been very pprofessionally done and I see why it blessed by your gunsmith.

This is a BSA commerical not a "Lee Speed". The action is in excellent condition. I see that the magazine cutoff on the bolt side of the gun is missing. As mentioned previously the magazine has been replaced. These small changes drastically impact the collector value of the rifle. Te=hey, however, can be restored to original. Parts are pricey however it is a worthwhile endeavour.

The barrel should be 25.25" as these were standard military issue. Looks like yours has been cut back a mear 1/4", most likely to recrowned. I sure this will shoot reasonably well given the fine tuning it's received.

Front sight has been changed...it's a dead ringer for a BRNO 600 series rifle.


You've got a fine old hunting rifle. Go out and enjoy it.
 
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