Need some expert help with a mid-early 20th German shotgun

Cleftwynd

Cleftwynd

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I posted this thread in the shotgun section but would like to link it in here in hopes that someone can help me with the identification and age of my most prized firearm.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...with-ID-and-information&p=7985227#post7985227

Even though it may not be worth much, this old German double 16 has travelled many miles with me, and kept my larder well stocked ever since I was old enough to carry a shotgun.


Regards, and Thanks to any that can provide some information.... Bill
 
Check out the Austrian and German sections of the antique proofmark database; click here.

Someone more knowledged in SXS's will chime in eventually as to what it is but at least you can figure out some of the proofed history on it :D.
 
What you have for proofs are;

Smokeless powder "Nitro" proof = Crowned N and the NITRO
View mark and final examination = Crowned U & the eagle appearing together
Choked barrel proof = Crowned W
Gauge proofing = 16 70

By these proofs you can tell it was built by 1939 or prior. The combination of the Crowned U and the Eagle together for final definitive inspection was used until 1939.
 
Thank you Loki, there are a few other marks I would like to understand as seen in the photo. I am still at a loss as to who made it, where it was made, and when.
 
Alright, it doesn't appear in the database thread as it's not an antique proof. Had to get into my own documents for this one.

The Shield with the sickle and mallet is the proofhouse of Suhl. This was used from 1939 - 1945. Combined with the other proofs your gun was manufactured in 1939 :D.

My guess so far for the leaf, acorn, and hammer in the circle is a makers mark. I'll see if I can find it.
*Edit* Lol, I just took the time to read your other thread. The circle proof is likely the mark of the maker H. DECKERT. Total guess here and not yet verified.
 
Wow, thats incredible! So far you have nailed down everything I have been searching for! And it has been a long search..... why didn't I just come here to start with?!? lol

From what I had surmised from the very little information I had gathered, is that it was built by a "guild" that both manufactured their own firearms, and "upgraded" firearms from other makers, like Sauer for example. Also, the H. DECKERT SUHL I was told would have been the smith that either proofed it, or did the work. SUHL I know is a geographic location, was it also the name of a "guild"?

The pictures do not show it, but on the bottom of the barrels there is also the eagle beside a Crown over S. If I can make out the writing, that seems to have characters we do not have in the alphabet, I will post them here.
 
Crown over S is the smoothbore proofmark.

Suhl in this case is going to be the proofhouse, also narrows it down to geographic location. The H. DECKERT is likely the makers name and could very well be the makers mark of the circle mark with leaf, acorn, and hammer, this is yet unverified.
 
SUHL is eastern Germany is it not? That would make sense as to why we bought this from a lot of firearms that came from Russia. Most likely seized at the end of WWII in Europe.

One thing for sure, I have never seen another shotgun with equal quality and craftsmanship for less than $10,000. The fit, finish, and amazing tooling is unmatched compared to anything I have seen. Might be worth more as scrap metal to most, but to me it is priceless.
 
Cleftwynd said:
One thing for sure, I have never seen another shotgun with equal quality and craftsmanship for less than $10,000. The fit, finish, and amazing tooling is unmatched compared to anything I have seen. Might be worth more as scrap metal to most, but to me it is priceless.
Click to expand...

Well you can pretty well guarantee this was hand fit and or crafted. Such a shotgun today would command a fine premium. Glad to see this is priceless to you, hope it stays in the family for generations to come :D.
 
BCMac said:
You can find some Suhl SxS in a 12 gauge at TradeEx. I grabbed one from there a while back
Click to expand...

Those are not close to what I have here in my hands, style is similar, but a lot different. Quality is not comparable. They must be a lot newer or something, I like them quite a bit mind you, but they are nothing like this old 16.... I hope to one day find another like this one in a different gauge, one smaller, and a 12.
 
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