ok guys, I got one for ya. Ive had my M1 Garand out twice now, and both times it has done the same thing. Every other clip, it will fire 3 or 4 rounds then try to eject, but the bolt comes back and catches it. I pull the oprod back, lock the clip back in and fire the remaining rounds without issue. The dimples on the clips arent worn, and it doesnt matter if I use the same clip or different ones. It doesnt do it every time either. The catch for the dimples on the clips doesnt look worn either. Anyone else have this problem? BTW its a win. reciever and bolt with all SA parts forward of that. PO told me it is all WW2 parts. Im firing american eagle 150 gr. BTFMJ factory loads with no adjustable gas plug. My thoughts are: 1. weak spring for the part that catches and locks the clips 2. loads a little to powerful, causing battering that possibly culminates with the possibly weak spring 3. weak oprod spring aiding battering 4. I'm losing my mind (highly probable) any thoughts, ideas, or solutions? thanks
Need some help with M1
- Thread starter supernova
- Start date
Does the bolt extract and eject the fired casings and then feed the live rounds OK? From your description I'm not sure if your problem is short recoil (op rod and bolt doesn't fully cycle) or premature clip ejection. If the bolt is successfully extracting spent casings and chambering the ones from the clip, then short recoil can be ruled out. There are several possible causes and fixes for each of these conditions. Tell us a bit more.
I just re-read my post and realized my discription wasnt that great. The problem is the clip itself tries to eject before its empty, it fires and ejects rounds perfectly with no problems. my thoughts on worn springs are simply ideas, I'm hoping to find a little more hard info before throwing money at it. so yeah, premature ejection is the problem, but it is fairly consistent by firing 3 to 4 rounds, then trying to eject, then firing the remaining rounds fine. It doesnt do it every time, but it will do it with the same clip, so its not just some clips. make sense?
OK, if the action is cycling fully, short cycling can be ruled out.
Premature clip ejection is due to any of the following causes:
1. Bent follower rod which cycles op rod catch and clip latch early
2. Worn follower rod forks which will also cycle op rod catch and clip latch early
3. Weak/short clip latch spring causing clip latch to slip or bounce out of engagement
4. Worn op rod catch
5. Worn clip latch
6. Worn follower arm
7. Follower rod deformed/rubbing on clip latch
8. Worn detents in ctg clip
Each of these should be checked in turn and parts changed as necessary. I'd start with the clip latch spring as this is a common problem. You may be able to replicate the problem by hand cycling a clip of dummy rounds.
Premature clip ejection is due to any of the following causes:
1. Bent follower rod which cycles op rod catch and clip latch early
2. Worn follower rod forks which will also cycle op rod catch and clip latch early
3. Weak/short clip latch spring causing clip latch to slip or bounce out of engagement
4. Worn op rod catch
5. Worn clip latch
6. Worn follower arm
7. Follower rod deformed/rubbing on clip latch
8. Worn detents in ctg clip
Each of these should be checked in turn and parts changed as necessary. I'd start with the clip latch spring as this is a common problem. You may be able to replicate the problem by hand cycling a clip of dummy rounds.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
ditto
There are 7 springs in the M1 Rifle; the ejector spring, the extractor spring, the hammer spring, the op rod spring, the butt trap spring, the spring in the unitized gas plug assembly, and the clip latch spring. The first 6 have no bearing on this problem. On the op rod spring, these become worn and distorted over time and you often see flats worn on the coils. Min/max length on these is 19 3/4-20 1/4 inches. Avoid the longer, so-called extra strength commercial springs or cut them to 20 1/4". And always lube op rod spring lightly with grease.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think purple is very close here:
3. Weak/short clip latch spring causing clip latch to slip or bounce out of engagement
4. Worn op rod catch:little arm is bent, esp. inwards.
5. Worn clip latch
These are the most likely candidates for this problem.
Hint: Get a friend to loan a fully operating M1 Rifle. Now on a big table under goood light, compare the two rifles. After comparing the strength of the clip latch spring, and gaze down onto both "magazine wells" to see if the little arm from the op rod catch is out of alignment (IE-bent inwards and too close to where the bullets ride upwards) then carefully teardown both rifles and closely compare the condition of these three problem areas.
Chances are it is one of these three issues.
3. Weak/short clip latch spring causing clip latch to slip or bounce out of engagement
4. Worn op rod catch:little arm is bent, esp. inwards.
5. Worn clip latch
These are the most likely candidates for this problem.
Hint: Get a friend to loan a fully operating M1 Rifle. Now on a big table under goood light, compare the two rifles. After comparing the strength of the clip latch spring, and gaze down onto both "magazine wells" to see if the little arm from the op rod catch is out of alignment (IE-bent inwards and too close to where the bullets ride upwards) then carefully teardown both rifles and closely compare the condition of these three problem areas.
Chances are it is one of these three issues.
Ok, I just had a look and found this: the clip latch spring measures about .495" free length, Brutus the oprod catch does not look bent in any way and functions normally. Infact nothing looks bent or worn. I will post a pic of the clip latch but it doesnt look worn.
There is no definitive length for the clip latch spring. Either it works or it doesn't. It would be a good idea to try another one or two and see what happens. I would focus on this before investing some coin on other parts.
One of the joys of troubleshooting a Garand is that there are many parts which interact, and there are manufacturing tolerances on each of them. You can then run into "tolerance stackup", a situation where individual parts may be within tolerances, but the aggregate result is still unacceptable. The amount of accumulated wear on any part is also tough to judge. I have found burrs on various internal parts which could be removed to get things working.
Unless one of the clip latch, bullet guide, follower, follower arm, follower rod, op rod catch, or follower arm pin is obviously unservicable, I generally swap components until I get a combination that works as intended.
One of the joys of troubleshooting a Garand is that there are many parts which interact, and there are manufacturing tolerances on each of them. You can then run into "tolerance stackup", a situation where individual parts may be within tolerances, but the aggregate result is still unacceptable. The amount of accumulated wear on any part is also tough to judge. I have found burrs on various internal parts which could be removed to get things working.
Unless one of the clip latch, bullet guide, follower, follower arm, follower rod, op rod catch, or follower arm pin is obviously unservicable, I generally swap components until I get a combination that works as intended.
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thanks purple, Im going to try a new clip latch spring first. I may as well replace all the springs anyways as I see my recoil spring is worn so the others will more than likely be on the way out the door. Im not big on replacing one or 2 components of a system, this leads to more frequent failures and repairs. If that doesnt fix it then I'll start replacing the other internal parts. Thanks to all who have helped!
