Neit Arms - Bolt Release & Ambi Mag Release - Second Impression

L

lmar

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So I finally broke down and bought into the ambi mag release and extended bolt release bandwagon.

Sent my saved up nickles and dimes to my favorite retailer and waited for Canada Post to do their thing.

Package arrived with a couple of new shiney bits - Hey Christmas all over again.

Machining and finish are top notch.

And then the disappointement rain clouds opened up.

The parkerizing of the two parts didn't match - threw a little gun oil on the parts and it wasn't nearly as noticeable.

Pulled the pin to install the extended bolt release. Everything went together smoothly until the last 1/8 of an inch. Discovered there isn't enough clearance on the front of the bolt stop to allow the factory pin to go all the way in. After I supressed my first thoughts of getting a file I figured to try and reverse the pin installation. It worked pretty good until I tried to re-install the retaining pin. Because I had to reverse the pin direction the centre clearance hole for the retaining pin doesn't line up correctly.

Moving along (I'll figure out how to fix it later) I then discover you can't run the ambi mag release and the bolt release at the same time. It turns out that the ambi bolt release interfers with the bolt release in such a way that it can't depress far enough to allow the bolt to release.

Okay, lets go to plan C & D. I remove the bolt release and install the ambi mag release with the pin oriented in the correct direction. Installation is fine.
Then I try and use my right finger to actuate the mag release. With the factory release and the bolt closed my magazines almost drop out by them selves. With the Neit mag release the right side lever makes contact with my magazine so it no longer drops out. Upon closer inspection it appears the angle and geometry of the release is incorrect.

I then start playing with the mag release using my right trigger finger. After 10-15 minipulations the sharp edges of the release make themselves known to the tip of my girly fingers. Not being able to see the advantage of sore fingers and trapped magazines I abandon this avenue and try the bolt release by itself.

Ignoring the wrong orientation of the pin once again I install the bolt release and start practicing my lightening fast reloads. Only to find out that I have to actuate the lever by using my thumb on my right hand (Index finger doesn't have enough strength to release the bolt). Further investigation reveals the extend bolt stop shaft is cocking in the hole when exerting pressure at the end of the lever. Works fine if you take your hand off the grip, reach forward with your thumb and depress hard.

In conclusion I always expect to have to play with parts to make the fit and function as they should. That is half the fun of gun ownership.

Perhaps its just me (I'm recovering from 3+ weeks of this dumb cold) expecting too much from aftermarket parts.

I'm thinking a nice nap might ease my disposition - but its not going to allow the pin to go in the right way, or the sharp edges to round themselves, or the bolt stop/ambi mag release to work together. For now my Dlask extended magazine release goes back on (it feels like a bar of soap compared to the Neit design)

Perhaps my expectations were to high.

L
 
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Some pictures would nice.

I have a Neit Arms mag release, it's actually a special run but I found that it bolted up quite nicely. The fit and finish was great as well. I think the pin is tapered so it won't fit from one side. But I'm not sure. Did you try passing the pin throught the holes of the bolt release and mag release? Be sure that the holes are all aligned as well. The spring pressure made it a little annoying to align the pin in the hole and push it through.

As for the bolt release I expect you are trying to activate it on an empty mag. If you try it on a loaded mag it should work like butter.

Reviews are always nice but your incompatibility issue with the ambi mag release and the bolt release should have been brought up with Neits customer service. They are a great company to deal with and I am sure they would have made things right.
 
Thanks a million Imar! As someone who was planning on ordering both of those pieces with the hopes of installing them both at the same time, I really do appreciate your input. I think I'll just wait and see how this is resolved, before I dish out my very hard earned cash. I am sure they will have an easy/quick fix for this. :)
 
Take two.

Another sleepless night (hacking and coughing).

The only good thing about not being able to sleep was to ponder the problem of the incompatible parts.

It just didn't make sense. Needed to eliminate any assumptions and work on the problem. In a fit of Eureka (3:30 in the morning) I decided to try the parts on a second CZ I owned.

The first thing I noticed was there was no head on the pin used to retain the bolt and magazine release. Ah-ha!!! Somebody had used the wrong pin when assembling the rifle at the factory. I then proceeded to install the parts in this second gun and low and behold - I can now run a ambi mag & bolt release at the same time. Bolt release works as advertised while the mag release still rubs up against the magazine. Further experimentation reveals a grittyness when releasing the mag. Closer inspection reveals the front edge of the ambi mag button is now rubbing against the magazine. Switched to another magazine and the problem still persists. Switch to a 3rd and the problem gets worse. There simply isn't enough clearance between the ambi mag release lever and the magazine itself when pushed fully forward to disengage the mag.

I then remembering I had purchased a $99.00 spares kit from Wolverine Supplies. I started rummaging around for an identical pin from this kit to retrofit to the first gun that was giving me all the problems.

After a couple of minutes of work the parts were swapped over to the first gun. Noticed the mag release takes a lot more pressue to fit than the factory or Dlask one - My calipers are at work so I can't measure what is out of tolerance (it may be the receiver). Bolt slide open still does not work. Further investigation revealed a lot more slop in both the hole and milled recess holding the bolt stop compared to other gun. In addtion, the ambi mag lever pushes up on the bolt stop (not enough clearance) which causes the bolt stop to rub against the bolt carrier. Discovered the last little tidbit when I couldn't charge the gun using the bolt handle. Releasing pressure by moving the magazine forward resulted in the bolt being able to move past the stop. This problem does not appear with gun #2 - only gun #1. The bolt release locks up tighter than you know what in the middle of winter.

In conclusion:

1. You may or may not be able to drop in the parts depending on reciever tolerances.
2. Bolt release may not work if machined receiver slot holding bolt stop is too big.
3. Depending on geometry, the interference of the ambi magazine lever causes the bolt stop to ride too high in the receiver - resulting in bolt stop shaft making contact with bottom of striker assembly - and subsequent peening of said bolt stop shaft.
4. Incorrect ambi magazine geometry results in harder magazine removal as it basically traps (rubs) the magazine in its release postion. Appears this issue may be remedied by machining radius on the front edge of lever.
5. Sharp edges of ambi mag release (better tactical purchase) means operating the mag release with right hand trigger finger becomes painful after very few repetitions. Repositioning finger tip inboard so one isn't catching the edge may work but requires concious effort - kind of defeats the purpose of the lever.

6. Out of tolerance receiver and/or mag release means one has to overcome greater spring force in order to actuate mag release. This may be amplifying the sharp edges effect of the release lever on my trigger finger. May be remedied by cutting coils on spring but factory mag release and Dlask one work fine with same spring.

7. For now the bolt release goes on gun number 2 (I really wanted it on gun number 1) and the Dlask extended magazine release goes back on both guns (it feels a lot nicer and allows for better release of the magazine. Gun #1 gets the factory bolt hold open and the ambi mag release might just go under the knife to see if I can round the sharp edges and get it to work properly.

As always, you milage may vary.

L
 
alexD92 said:
Some pictures would nice.

I have a Neit Arms mag release, it's actually a special run but I found that it bolted up quite nicely. The fit and finish was great as well. I think the pin is tapered so it won't fit from one side. But I'm not sure. Did you try passing the pin throught the holes of the bolt release and mag release? Be sure that the holes are all aligned as well. The spring pressure made it a little annoying to align the pin in the hole and push it through.

As for the bolt release I expect you are trying to activate it on an empty mag. If you try it on a loaded mag it should work like butter.

Reviews are always nice but your incompatibility issue with the ambi mag release and the bolt release should have been brought up with Neits customer service. They are a great company to deal with and I am sure they would have made things right.
Click to expand...

Some observations:

1. It worked fine but it was a special run. Define special run.
2. Pin is not tapered and can fit from any side of gun.
3. Pin only goes through both parts and receiver holes if everything is lined up.
4. Magazine was out on all attempts.
5. Neit Arms claims on their website that installation is drop in. They do not mention any incompatibility issues with either part. This is a version 3 extended bolt stop (at least advertised as such) which claims to work with any and all receivers.
6. I do not disagree that Neit Arms customer service can make things right. However, my first inclination is not to phone them up asking if their sales literature is accurate. Will take it on faith that the information is accurate and purchase accordingly.
7. I purchased the product based on the claims of the manafacturer. The same information that any other GN would use to purchase the product.
8. The fact that I have two guns that can't run their product (as advertised) may just be just a coincident.

9. These are my observation on the installation of the product and not the company.

L
 
I remember they had problems with their first gen bolt release. Which is why i was hesitant to buy the newer one.

Are there any other companies pumping out VZ mag and bolt releases?

BTW, Thanks for your detailed investigation.
 
Yep I am 1 of these guys that had this issues 2. That was untill I switch to B.C. Tactical's mag & bolt release system. Top notch plug and play items. I heard that they even work on the newer CSA models that have the thicker walls but I haven't tried it first hand so don't quote me. So here is a youtube video I made showing my problems I had and also video of B.C. Tactical's showing no more such malfunctions.
[youtube]o4STOk0GzbE[/youtube]
[youtube]JzHsNziqeMQ[/youtube]
I'll let you deciede witch one I keept and witch 1 I sold.
;)
 
We've made pretty close to 1000 bolt releases so far and have exchanged 8. 6 were from the first batch in which we pulled the entire line off the shelves and redesigned the part to be more compatible with the wide variations of VZ specs( I still have 125 of them in the scrap bin).

#1 issue that we receive complaints on... Very hard to release the bolt. Its hard on fingers and requires force. Solution; take out the empty mag, you're trying to use the tip of your finger to depress the entire mag plate & spring. It is for reloading... Use it with no mag or full mag.

We have sold over 500 ambi mag releases and had one complaint that it wouldn't work in their gun. We get lots of questions about the release pushing on the bolt release. Refer to solution #1; no mag or full mag.

They are shooting accessories, not couch accessories. Some parts may have a very short break in period. To every customer service issue recveived on these parts the suggestion is the same; shoot it and call back.

That being said... In response to the OP; shoot it and call back. ;) Our products have a lifetime warrenty. As long as you don't pull a Satain and take a grinder to it thinking you have more insight than the designer and wonder why it doesn't work, we'll replace or refund. No problem.

The specs of all the VZs vary and they're really hard to engineer parts for. Erspecially when you're trying to make two aftermarket parts work in conjunction. If our parts do not work in a particular model, I have no problem modifying the design.

#1 would be to give us a shout and ask us about your problem, we'd be more than happy to assist. You may find that going on a public forum to ask for 3rd hand advice may be the slower process.

I have both parts installed on my rifle, as do all the custom guns we have put out. There should be no issue, if there is, contact us and let's figure out why. We can't help if were not asked. We can't change if we're not involved.
 
On my B.C. Tactical bolt release, I have to turn my trigger finger down to release the bolt. I just dont have the strength in my finger to release it using the side of my finger. Thats with a loaded mag, it might solve your problem
 
Use on empty mag or full mag and you can use the side of your finger. Should be little to no effort. Try and drop on a empty mag and you'll need a little more work.

[youtube]F7wRz06BpqU[/youtube]
 
NeitArms said:
We've made pretty close to 1000 bolt releases so far and have exchanged 8. 6 were from the first batch in which we pulled the entire line off the shelves and redesigned the part to be more compatible with the wide variations of VZ specs( I still have 125 of them in the scrap bin).

#1 issue that we receive complaints on... Very hard to release the bolt. Its hard on fingers and requires force. Solution; take out the empty mag, you're trying to use the tip of your finger to depress the entire mag plate & spring. It is for reloading... Use it with no mag or full mag.

We have sold over 500 ambi mag releases and had one complaint that it wouldn't work in their gun. We get lots of questions about the release pushing on the bolt release. Refer to solution #1; no mag or full mag.

They are shooting accessories, not couch accessories. Some parts may have a very short break in period. To every customer service issue recveived on these parts the suggestion is the same; shoot it and call back.

That being said... In response to the OP; shoot it and call back. ;) Our products have a lifetime warrenty. As long as you don't pull a Satain and take a grinder to it thinking you have more insight than the designer and wonder why it doesn't work, we'll replace or refund. No problem.

The specs of all the VZs vary and they're really hard to engineer parts for. Erspecially when you're trying to make two aftermarket parts work in conjunction. If our parts do not work in a particular model, I have no problem modifying the design.

#1 would be to give us a shout and ask us about your problem, we'd be more than happy to assist. You may find that going on a public forum to ask for 3rd hand advice may be the slower process.

I have both parts installed on my rifle, as do all the custom guns we have put out. There should be no issue, if there is, contact us and let's figure out why. We can't help if were not asked. We can't change if we're not involved.
Click to expand...

Some observations:

1. All tests were performed with the magazine out of the gun.
2. Bolt interference can be directly related to magazine release pushing up on bolt stop. Moving magazine release forward relieves pressure on bolt release and you can watch the top of the bolt hold open shaft move down out of the way.
3. Statistics are just averages. There are situations that occur that fall above and below the norms. I just happened to win the lottery.
4. I am not going to knowingly shoot a gun that can cause damage. That is why one test fits and dry fires a gun prior to going out to the range.
5. I will be the first to admit that the variation in tolerances of my receiver is causing the issues. Kudos to you for pulling the first batch.
6. I never asked for 3rd party advice (or first party advice) because my review was based on unbiased observations of the installation process. I have not asked for a refund nor do I expect one.
7. The actuation of the magazine release is a personal one. Since I no longer work on cars or airplanes for a living the only toughening of my girly fingers is by pounding on the keyboard all day.
8. Out of spec receivers may mean two aftermarket parts may not be able to play nice together.

No malice is intended nor implied in my writeup. I simply reported on my observations and when necessary clarified some points with my opinions.

L
 
lmar said:
Some observations:

1. All tests were performed with the magazine out of the gun.
2. Bolt interference can be directly related to magazine release pushing up on bolt stop. Moving magazine release forward relieves pressure on bolt release and you can watch the top of the bolt hold open shaft move down out of the way.
3. Statistics are just averages. There are situations that occur that fall above and below the norms. I just happened to win the lottery.
4. I am not going to knowingly shoot a gun that can cause damage. That is why one test fits and dry fires a gun prior to going out to the range.
5. I will be the first to admit that the variation in tolerances of my receiver is causing the issues. Kudos to you for pulling the first batch.
6. I never asked for 3rd party advice (or first party advice) because my review was based on unbiased observations of the installation process. I have not asked for a refund nor do I expect one.
7. The actuation of the magazine release is a personal one. Since I no longer work on cars or airplanes for a living the only toughening of my girly fingers is by pounding on the keyboard all day.
8. Out of spec receivers may mean two aftermarket parts may not be able to play nice together.

No malice is intended nor implied in my writeup. I simply reported on my observations and when necessary clarified some points with my opinions.

L
Click to expand...

Again, with some details in to us, we can easily rectify the issue. With some feedback from the other user that experienced the same issue and with some helpful images of the situation, we will alter the design going forward. If you are experiencing the same issue we can offer advice how to rectify the problem yourself or exchange the part for another that we can modify in house.

It is always most effective going to the source, especially when we take our customer comments/suggestions to heart and do what we can to take corrective action.

Shoot me a email if you are looking for a solution.
 
Personaly I love this kind of post. Thanks Imar for telling your story in detail. If others have the same issues they can refer to this post.

NeitArms shows a willingness to stand behind their products that you will rarely find. If I am reading correctly he has offered to make a custom fitted part for your what apperars to be off spec in some way rifle. That is fine customer service if I ever saw it.

I am buying 2 sets with confidance.
 
Ya +1 for Neit Arms.Ive seen other ''reviews'' done on other companys/dealers and it turned into the dealer/company getting all #####y and implying that the only way there can possibly be a problem with there product is due to user error.Not the case here.Ill be buying a set as well.
 
My TBR took 10 minutes to install and works slick as you like--my son loves it--no more yanking back on that cocking handle! My ambi mag release is in the mail from OST--even got to talk to a real person instead of one of those satanic computer voices......
 
K1ng C said:
Ya +1 for Neit Arms.Ive seen other ''reviews'' done on other companys/dealers and it turned into the dealer/company getting all #####y and implying that the only way there can possibly be a problem with there product is due to user error.Not the case here.Ill be buying a set as well.
Click to expand...

The simple fact is that I'm still a grunt at heart. I'm not a businessman and have just had to learn how to run a business in the last year. Mu customer service experience up until then has amounted to a friendly f-off or worse. I would like to think that my cheery demeanor has improved since that time with the experience of the business.

That being said.. I have had to learn how to deal with customers and the best way to do that is to use your product as a crutch. If your product is perfect, there are no complaints. Every issue raised to us is always met with simple solutions; replace, refund or redesign. I don't want a half-assed product with my name on it. If there's a issue, we will fix it. If we can't fix it, we will bin it. It is the input of our customers and our test user network. It is with the feedback we receive in design and after the fact that helps us give the best product and service we are able to offer.
 
Bc tactical work right and no issues

I purchased the BC Tactical set from reliable and they work perfectly with zero hassles on the install.

RS
 
Well, my Neit Arms ambi-mag release arrived a couple of days ago. It interfered with the installed Neit Arms TBR. I contacted Neit, and they got back to me within the hour. After an exchange of pictures, I modified the mag release according to their plans. Hey Presto!! All is good, and everthing works properly. I'll definitely be ordering more Neit products in the future. I guess "Made in Canada" really does matter.....
 
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