New CZ 455 22LR -- is it ammo picky or me?

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grauhanen

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I bought a new CZ 455 American .22LR last month. I don't know if it's me, the gun, or the ammo. I've been shooting various brands of ammo at 30 yards. Many of the less expensive, such as T22 and Remington target, shoot all over the place all the time. Groups, if they can be called that, are typically close to an inch, sometimes more, at 30 yards. I've tried some SK Standard Plus, RWS Club, and Remington Eley Club Xtra and they produce better groups, with three or four of five going almost in the same hole. There are always some that miss unexpectedly what I'm aiming at (at 30 yards) by half an inch or so.

I'm shooting off a rest and exercising careful trigger "pull". The scope should be sound as it was fine on the rifle it served previously. I'm asking because I regularly shoot a PCP (precharged pneumatic) air rifle, a near top of the line HW100 which is a little more costly than the CZ, with considerably more success, by which I mean sub-half-inch groups easily at 40 yards.

Perhaps I'm not using good technique for shooting .22LR. Am I wrong to think that at 30 yards it should be relatively easy to shoot half inch groups? Can a rifle like the CZ 455 be especially picky about what ammo it will shoot well? (Parenthetically, I will add that most air rifles can be very pellet picky and will be very unlikely to shoot anything from Wally World well at all.)
 
Sounds like you're able to do your part with the trigger.
I'm no expert but I understand that the 455's barrels have some screws that need to be torqued down properly. I'm sure someone else with more experience with CZ's will chime in.
My buddy just picked up a CZ455 Varmint and I'm excited to test it out. I hope his gets good results cause I persuaded him to buy one (so I didn't have to:)).
Let us know how you make out….and don't forget to post some pics!
 
My 455 American has been tested at 50 Meters, and 100 (yards and Meters) using a Weaver T36 scope.
With Lapua CenterX, two 10 shot groups measured 1.55 and 1.5 at 100 yards.
At 100 meters using CCI MiniMags (HP & Solids), the solids were about 2" higher, and 4 of 5 shots would be just over an inch and always a flyer.
At 50 M., Midas Plus and Eley Match showed better results when the wind was less of a factor.
Trigger was around 4 pounds but is now just over 3 when adjusted but I do have a Timney spoken for.
 
My 455 standard with a cheap 3x9 variable will shoot 0.6" off of sand bags with Thunderbolts or Federal Gold Medal. 0.3" with CCI Minimags. With cheap bulk packs like 555 it opens up to 0.7-0.8".

50yards_zps9675c50a.jpg
 
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Based on my experience, and looking at the replies above, others as well, the answer is "yep, ammo makes a huge difference". Less expensive generally means less quality control (faster production/less culling = less costly), which means greater variances in each round. Hence your experience with the less expensive ammo being les accurate.

The odd thing about .22's though, is that not all rifles of the same model will end with the same ammo as the "preferred" ammo. That's one of the joys/frustrations (depending on your point of view) of shooting rim fire. I still buy one or two hundred rounds of an ammo I haven't tried before whenever I see it in the hopes of finding something else that my rifle likes. I'll fire 10 or so shots to get the barrel used to the new ammo and then see what I can do at 50 yds. I bring the targets home and keep a list of the brands and the results.

Your experiences with the mid-grade ammo are consistent with others. 4 of five rounds sub-MOA with a small flier wrecking your groups. I hear your frustration. In my experience, this flier is 50% shooter error and 50% ammo at the midgrade. When I'm on my game, my rifles mid-grade preference (RWS Rifle Match) will have sub-MOA (1/2" at 50yds) groups 3 out of 5 times. Of course, this drives me nuts, as I really want to complete the "1/2 inch challenge".

I think I saw this question over at Rimfire Central. Surf around there a bit more as there are lots of great tips on .22lr shooting techniques. I've found that my varmint likes to rest close to the magazine. Moving the front rest forward induces some vertical stringing. As well, a medium to firm grip reduces groups sizes as well. Torque on the action screws also changes the rifles performance.

So, in summary, shoot lots and try different techniques, torques, and ammo. You'll slowly start understanding that particular gun while reducing group sizes. Plus, it's a great excuse to shoot lots :)
 
ickster said:
Based on my experience, and looking at the replies above, others as well, the answer is "yep, ammo makes a huge difference". Less expensive generally means less quality control (faster production/less culling = less costly), which means greater variances in each round. Hence your experience with the less expensive ammo being les accurate.

The odd thing about .22's though, is that not all rifles of the same model will end with the same ammo as the "preferred" ammo. That's one of the joys/frustrations (depending on your point of view) of shooting rim fire. I still buy one or two hundred rounds of an ammo I haven't tried before whenever I see it in the hopes of finding something else that my rifle likes. I'll fire 10 or so shots to get the barrel used to the new ammo and then see what I can do at 50 yds. I bring the targets home and keep a list of the brands and the results.

Your experiences with the mid-grade ammo are consistent with others. 4 of five rounds sub-MOA with a small flier wrecking your groups. I hear your frustration. In my experience, this flier is 50% shooter error and 50% ammo at the midgrade. When I'm on my game, my rifles mid-grade preference (RWS Rifle Match) will have sub-MOA (1/2" at 50yds) groups 3 out of 5 times. Of course, this drives me nuts, as I really want to complete the "1/2 inch challenge".

I think I saw this question over at Rimfire Central. Surf around there a bit more as there are lots of great tips on .22lr shooting techniques. I've found that my varmint likes to rest close to the magazine. Moving the front rest forward induces some vertical stringing. As well, a medium to firm grip reduces groups sizes as well. Torque on the action screws also changes the rifles performance.

So, in summary, shoot lots and try different techniques, torques, and ammo. You'll slowly start understanding that particular gun while reducing group sizes. Plus, it's a great excuse to shoot lots :)
Click to expand...
Good advice. I found it interesting about groups being affected by where the gun sits on a rest as I have found this to be especially important when shooting high end springers (and probably even more so with inexpensive ones). I put in a Yodave trigger kit shortly after I got the gun as the trigger was much too heavy for bench shooting. I'm going to continue to try different ammo, but no more of the cheap stuff as all it does is shoot poorly. I picked up a torque wrench to check on the barrel retention hex screws. I'll do that before shooting again.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
 
i have a 455 american that was shooting twoonie size groups no matter what ammo i used lapua cci green, tag eley team, american eagle, didn't matter I talked to a gunsmith who said keep trying different ammo not worth bedding so i read about pillar bedding and decided to try it myself. It worked incredibly well. Fingernail size groups at 25yrds, I didn't skim bed yet because it seems to be good enough for now. Night and day difference. I used 3/8 stainless tubing with 1/16 wall thickness, had to notch the forward one for the mag well and ran them through a tap to give the epoxy something to stick to goggle it oh ya as well as a yodave trigger kit
Todd
 
No matter what ammo you use, weigh it and sort it (by weight) and (if you have the tme and are really anal) measure the rim thickness of each round and sort it accordingly. Then, and only then, expect to get consistent groups. When the planets/stars are favourably aligned, and your eyes, the rifle, the weather, and the Gods smile upon you, may also factor into the equation.
 
Are you positive your optics are good? Are you sure that the barrel screws are torqued properly (I use 30 in-lbs) and the action screws are torqued properly? If so then I would start to think there was something wrong with the rifle. You have tried a lot of different ammo and still get inconsistent results. My CZ 455 shoots better than me- and I can shoot much better than 1" at 30 yards. You should be able to easily hold 0.5" groups at 30 yards with ammo that works in your gun- and you have tried some quality stuff. Do you have a gunsmith that can check the chamber/headspace etc for you? 1" at 30 yards isn't ammo sorting or inconsistency- to me something is moving or you have a bad chamber or something else with the rifle. Another idea would be to see if you can borrow a barrel from someone else with a 455 and see how that changes things.
 
I noticed that with the 455's i had they wouldn't soot great with anything other then higher end target ammo. I had 2 455's doth are sold. My 452's shoot all kinds of ammo great.
 
To take yourself out of the equation give it to someone else to shoot a group. Do you have an extra scope lying around you can put on to see if this is the problem. Pretty much any 22 should give you better than just under 1 inch group off sand bags at 25 yards you are seeing, of course unless something is wrong.
 
Lots of good suggestions. The 455 is definitely sensitive to barrel and action screw tightness - and they are not consistently tightened from the factory. Try 30 in-lb on the barrel, and 20 on the action.
Drop the trigger adjustment as low as you can safely.
Cycle the bolt about 100 times with only a light amount of gun oil on it. (You did take everything apart and clean it good when new right? Including getting the factory oil out of the barrel?)
Try changing the piece behind the trigger (you) just to be sure.
If you can, try a different scope. When I first got mine (17hmr), I put on a scope I already had sitting here to try I out while I waited for my new scope. Horrible. Lucky to get 2" at 100m. When my new scope came, I threw it on and went straight to the range. I kid you not, it now became easy to get 1" or less at 100m.
My dad's 455 got the above clean ups and adjustments right away, and will shoot under and inch for him with open sights at 25. Which is saying something considering his sight is not good and he has not shot open sights for decades.
 
I picked up a torque wrench and checked the barrel retention and action screws, so they were good when I went to the range today. I shot SK Standard Plus ammo and the groups are starting to improve. Maybe it is getting better as more rounds are put through it and maybe I'm getting more used to the rifle. I was finally able to do what I was hoping to, that is to put five shots through one hole at 30 yards more than once. There was another fellow was at the range who was shooting his Marlin .22 at 100 yards. I asked him to shoot my rifle and he got the same kind of groups I was getting at first. He said it would take some "getting used to". I shot a few groups at 50 yards and had some one inch groups (and a few that weren't so good). Perhaps this rifle takes a bit more getting used to than I anticipated. I think I'm on the road to satisfaction. No more "average" quality ammo that I can buy everywhere. I'm going to stick with the "better stuff" -- even if it costs a little more.
Thanks to everyone for the tips and advice.
 
What distance is your scope's parallax set for ?

You probably know this, but trying to Shoot groups can be frustrating without an AO to zero out that gremlin
 
I just took my CZ455 Evo to the range today. I tried several ammo types - from Lapua Biathlon ($21.50 for 50) to Federal Target Grade ($19.00 for 350). All were consistent with the smallest group being .25" at 50 yards using the Federal Target. I'm using a Nikon 3-9x40 AO Target EFR scope. The Federal and Lapua seemed to have very similar results, but the math tells me to buy more Federal Target.

I should mention that this was the first time this rifle has been fired.
 
grauhanen said:
I bought a new CZ 455 American .22LR last month. I don't know if it's me, the gun, or the ammo. I've been shooting various brands of ammo at 30 yards. Many of the less expensive, such as T22 and Remington target, shoot all over the place all the time. Groups, if they can be called that, are typically close to an inch, sometimes more, at 30 yards. I've tried some SK Standard Plus, RWS Club, and Remington Eley Club Xtra and they produce better groups, with three or four of five going almost in the same hole. There are always some that miss unexpectedly what I'm aiming at (at 30 yards) by half an inch or so.

I'm shooting off a rest and exercising careful trigger "pull". The scope should be sound as it was fine on the rifle it served previously. I'm asking because I regularly shoot a PCP (precharged pneumatic) air rifle, a near top of the line HW100 which is a little more costly than the CZ, with considerably more success, by which I mean sub-half-inch groups easily at 40 yards.

Perhaps I'm not using good technique for shooting .22LR. Am I wrong to think that at 30 yards it should be relatively easy to shoot half inch groups? Can a rifle like the CZ 455 be especially picky about what ammo it will shoot well? (Parenthetically, I will add that most air rifles can be very pellet picky and will be very unlikely to shoot anything from Wally World well at all.)
Click to expand...

I had an american that was temp sensitive... I could get 3 very tight, then 4 and 5 were like a shotgun... So, I did monitoring on barrel temps with an infra red heat gun, and let the barrel cool to a constant temp, and the groups remained tight. Blazer ammo was what I was using. I shimmed the barrel at the end of the stock so it took 5-7 pounds of upward pull to lift the barrel off the bedding, and it helped a lot. I used layers of waxed paper for experimentation. The tight group opened up a very little bit, but remained very consistent with 30 rounds (all the mag capacity I had at the time) fired in very quick succession. Also, other types of ammo that the gun didn't like before were much more consistent after...

I have several varmint models in the 453, and they seem much less sensitive to the heat generated than the american was...
 
horseman2 said:
My 455 American has been tested at 50 Meters, and 100 (yards and Meters) using a Weaver T36 scope.
With Lapua CenterX, two 10 shot groups measured 1.55 and 1.5 at 100 yards.
At 100 meters using CCI MiniMags (HP & Solids), the solids were about 2" higher, and 4 of 5 shots would be just over an inch and always a flyer.
At 50 M., Midas Plus and Eley Match showed better results when the wind was less of a factor.
Trigger was around 4 pounds but is now just over 3 when adjusted but I do have a Timney spoken for.
Click to expand...

August 16:

The Timney was for a 452 and not compatible to a 455.
Installed a YoDave kit and the trigger is at about 1 1/8 lb.
Torqued the action screws to 25, and back to the range.
Wanted better results for CCI MiniMags but 1" at 50 yards was not going to happen consistently.
Some standard velocity showed promise but lacked consistency. The best was RWS Rifle Match turning in a .35, .44, .45 and .46 (c-c). Only have a box and a half left.
A little right to left wind but not significant enough to abort the tests
There are lots of good suggestions on this thread and I will now torque to 30 "lbs.
 
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