New G9 154 grain .308 bullet with G1 BC of .578 Say what now??!!

J996

J996

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I just ran across this. Anybody ever hear of these guys? They claim 8.4 Mils elevation to 1000 yards with a 100 yard zero. And it mag feeds.

From Shot Show 2016

Ran this through ballistics (100 yard zero).

At 2850 fps this bullet would need 8.3 Mil to 1000 yards with 2 Mil drift in a 10mph wind.

At 3000 fps this bullet would need 7.4 Mil to 1000 yards with 1.8 Mil drift in a 10mph wind.

That absolutely stomps anything that is out there right now in this bullet weight for .30 cal. By comparison, a Berger 155 Hybrid's G1 BC is listed at 478. This pill claims a G1 of 578. I'm really hoping this does not turn out to be baloney.
 
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Any and every 308 projectile will mag feed, you might just have to jump one more than another ;)

I would bet that you would have to build a barrel around these rounds to make them mag feed and shoot accurately out of most guns.
 
The last wonder pill that came out were flat line bullets by Warner Tool. They were so long (even the 155) they would never fit in a mag.

6MT,
The guy claims these run 200 fps faster than the competitions bullet (due to material used) and said it runs at 3000+ fps muzzle velocity. That speed, combined with the high BC is 300 win mag territory, to include wind deflection. If this checks out and if and when these become available, I will be buying a box to try out for sure.
 
Conceptually, nothing too out of the ordinary... lathe turned monolithic bullets are nothing new. Take the lead out and you get a longer bullet for the given mass BUT mass is part of the BC calculation so things get a big foggy with the BC numbers.

Barnes hunting bullets are a prime example of this in mass manf... so is the new Hrn GMX family.

Some problems from the past that this manf seems to be address... fouling and bore friction. The driving bands is the most common solution of this and does work. Others have tried a bullet with a waist.

Changing to the same alloy as jacket material reduce fouling as shown by the Hrn bullet. I believe the Warner bullet does the same thing.

Balance and accuracy can be a problem as inclusions and voids in the raw material causes all manner of problem... likely that can be addressed in the material stage.

Aerodynamic stability can be another weak area as you have a very different distribution of mass within the bullet vs a conventional lead core jacket. Of course, that can get engineered out.

Cost has been the biggest stumbling block... some lathe turned are double the cost of cup/core bullets so that gets pricey fast.

Then this type of bullet is not allowed in some competitions like F class which greatly limits it appeal.

Be interesting to see if it works and how it really does handle the wind. Also, what happens when the bullet slows down.

Now saying that a 300WM would exceed 3000rds of fire because of reduced bullet wear is a bit silly. most of the damage that leads to accuracy loss is bore wear in the throat and that damage is done by the powder burning so unsure how this claim can be valid.

I am sure we will hear lots more about the Warner bullets and these on the US forums... hopefully, someone has figured out the solution to this cause that would an interesting improvement in external ballistics

polymer bullets would be next.

Jerry
 
AlcoBullets has some great claims also on high BCs with their new bullets @ .80 USD each for rebated 175 .308's .
 
h ttp://www.g9bullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/308-154-gr-Load-Data-4-7-2016.pdf

This is their data sheet for the 154 bullet. Bullet length is 1.435 and the COAL is 2.90 They recommend a 1:10 ROT barrel or faster. They used a 24" barrel with three different powders and velocity is listed 2900 to 3000 fps.

*Cough* I think Jerry should bring some of these in *cough*
 
Let's see if they want to talk to me....

Will update if I get any info.

SWAG retail based on US exchange rate would be $108/100 before any taxes, cost of import, freight, etc, etc, etc.

My guess, these are going to be close to double the price of a Berger, maybe 3 times the cost of a Sierra or Lapua.... Still interested?

Jerry
 
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Mystic Precision said:
Let's see if they want to talk to me....

Will update if I get any info.

SWAG retail based on US exchange rate would be $108/100 before any taxes, cost of import, freight, etc, etc, etc.

My guess, these are going to be close to double the price of a Berger, maybe 3 times the cost of a Sierra or Lapua.... Still interested?

Jerry
Click to expand...

Hmmm that is steep. I'll be honest, I don't think I can afford to shoot them as a replacement for my current bullet. The bloody SMK's are up over $300 for a box of 500 after tax now. Sigh, sure looks good on paper though:(
 
J996 said:
h ttp://www.g9bullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/308-154-gr-Load-Data-4-7-2016.pdf

This is their data sheet for the 154 bullet. Bullet length is 1.435 and the COAL is 2.90 They recommend a 1:10 ROT barrel or faster. They used a 24" barrel with three different powders and velocity is listed 2900 to 3000 fps.

*Cough* I think Jerry should bring some of these in *cough*
Click to expand...

If you look at their load data, you will find "slowish" ball powders and alot of it in the case. Yes, you can reach some very spicy speeds with these powders. I know FTR shooters that have reach speeds, too scary to repeat. What we don't have is any pressure trace data... THIS is what I want to see.

Driving bands or not, you still need enough engraving to impact stable spin on the bullet so there IS bore friction.

the rest of the claims, no idea as I have never seen the bullet.

But the design is essentially a 185gr VLD made out of some copper'ish alloy with driving bands.

Jerry
 
J996 said:
Hmmm that is steep. I'll be honest, I don't think I can afford to shoot them as a replacement for my current bullet. The bloody SMK's are up over $300 for a box of 500 after tax now. Sigh, sure looks good on paper though:(
Click to expand...

That is an ongoing problem with these monolithic bullet... COST.

Why they are so expensive, I am unsure but I guess no one has really tooled up to spit these puppies out at high enough volume to get the cost per unit down?????

or maybe there is some other cost increasing problem????

Now if you are forced to use a 308 for LR shooting, these bullets might offer some benefits but let's compare these to something as boring as a 260 Rem and see what we get.

G9 154gr at 2900fps (which is already pretty spicy).... I don't buy the velocity until I get some pressure trace data to back it up. We can get similar speeds with very high pressures which is unrealistic and likely not very accurate.

Drop 26min Drift in 10MPH full value 5.8MOA

260 Rem 140gr VLD at 2750fps (no problem to achieve this and you can throttle up from here)

Drop 28min Drift 5.8 MOA

Run the numbers for yourself on JBM.....

At these elevated pressure, the 308 and these double base ball powders have very high bore wear too. Don't worry, this stuff is so very 2012/2013....

So..... let's hear more data and real world results and then decide who wants some very expensive bullets.

Right now, I have confirmed interest in 1 box of bullets.... Do I hear TWO boxes?????

Jerry
 
It's been a while but when I looked into it I think my material cost for turning bullets out of copper would have been around $.25each, before even touching it. (308 size)
360 brass, which is what those look to be out of, or something close to that... would be a bit less $. Their USD price looks decent to me.

I don't think there's enough demand for such turned bullets to justify the cost of a machine to run them 24/7 in order to be able to keep prices lower.


As to the bullets themselves, most long turned low drag bullets like that are more easily carried/disturbed by wind. Faster twist needed to try to keep them stable obviously.
 
SND said:
It's been a while but when I looked into it I think my material cost for turning bullets out of copper would have been around $.25each, before even touching it. (308 size)
360 brass, which is what those look to be out of, or something close to that... would be a bit less $. Their USD price looks decent to me.

I don't think there's enough demand for such turned bullets to justify the cost of a machine to run them 24/7 in order to be able to keep prices lower.


As to the bullets themselves, most long turned low drag bullets like that are more easily carried/disturbed by wind. Faster twist needed to try to keep them stable obviously.
Click to expand...

Great info on the raw material and costs. Thought it would be cheaper...

This has been going on for as long as I have been LR shooting.. monolithic turned bullets.... if they are better, there would be adopters which would do well in various competitions. Demand would grow and the cost to justify and tool up would be there for any business to go 24/7 on these things. The market place would change and this style would be the new "goto".

BUT, it hasn't happened for a wide range of reasons. Maybe G9 has resolved or just going down the same rabbit hole????? Time will tell.

The issues with inertia are rarely ever discussed and is a huge part of "LR drift". Why I am waiting on more real world shooting to see how the BC really plays out. A shape analysis can spit out numbers all day long BUT where the bullet lands vs what the shooter expects is really what we can use.

Stability another real world problem....

By the end of this shooting season, there will either be a bunch of excited posts all over the US sites or there will not be.

Let's see what happens...

Jerry
 
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