New guy with a long story :P

M

mchaley

Regular
Location
ON/QC
Hello fellow gunnutz.

My name is Matt. I'm a US citizen living with my Canadian Fiance in Japan. We're living here for another year and then we'll be living in Ontario. I'm working on studying for my CFSA and CRFSA to get my PAL. In the US, I live in Pennsylvania. I own a Remington 870 Express Super Magnum, a Remington Model Seven, a Calico m100lr, and a dreaded AK47. In the future, I'd like to buy a Remington 700, Glock 23, Sig Sauer p226, and an AR15. I'd like to own more but that's the list for now :) I own a site dedicated to gun owners, laws, politics, etc, however most of my members are from the US. One of them is from Romania :p I also own a web hosting business. I'm eager to learn about the gun laws of Canada. I've got quite a few questions.
 
Here's a rude opening statement friend:
According to our wonderful law makers, two of your rifles: a Calico m100lr, and a dreaded AK47, are banned for civilian ownership in Canada.
The popular AR-15 is a restricted weapon in Canada (only legal for range shooting/competition, at a government approved gun range as well only, in other words you cannot take it hunting here)BTW, no problem with the Remington 700 rifle, for hunting/target shooting, but all legally owned firearms are currently registered via national database, whether long arms or pistols.
Canada also has an unusual law concerning barrel length of pistols/revolvers: Restricted barrel length 4.2 inches and longer, anything shorter than 4.2 inches, is a prohibited weapon here. Only citizens with grandfather status from 1996 or so, may continue to own them. Also any prohibited weapon (like your AK-47 or two inch snubnose revolver) can no longer be imported across our international borders.

There is provision in the law for wilderness carry to protect human life in the hinterland from critters, but if one wants to carry an adequate pistol/revolver, it's a long process to acquire ATC (Authority to Carry) and you must demonstrate a real need for a holstered weapon, often employment related, IE: prospecting, forestry (treeplanters) professional wildlife photography, geologist, etc.
Less of an issue for rifles or shotguns for the same chore.

Magazine limitations, 10 shot for pistol (rimfire & centrefire)
5 shot for centrefire semi-auto rifles and shotguns (one exception to M1 garand, 8 shot allowed at rifle range)
But some provinces have legal hunting limits for semi-automatic high power rifle & shotguns (usually 5 rounds)
No limit on manually operated rifles and manually operated shotgun magazine capacity for possession.(again maybe hunting limitations for capacity)
Rimfire rifle, no capacity limit for possession. There are unusual exemptions for up to 10 shot pistol magazines on long gun semi-auto centrefire rifles, (possession) but it's bloddy confusing for an introduction!!

And currently in Canada, there are very very few permits issued for protection of life from other evil persons.
I thought I heard here in Ontario in a population of 13 million, exactly 13 permits for equilavant, to American CCW were issued recently.

Up until 1996, the average Canadian gun owner, could almost guess what every gun sold in this country what category it fell into:

non-restricted
restricted
prohibited

But our law makers then outright banned some firearms on looks only (evil looking!) by OIC (Order in Council)
kind of like Presidential Exectutive Order in the USA.
Overnight previously non-restricted and restricted arms became prohibited, our worse, banned outright.
This made our laws much more confusing!

This is just a short and by no means complete, introduction to our misguided firearms laws.
 
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Uh oh, AK47. This guy is one dangerous individual. When you come up here you'll have to get rid of that scary, evil gun and buy something nice and safe and friendly and totally different like a CZ858.
 
Well, at least Erie County, Crawford, Mercer and Venango are about four hours away from Toronto.

I'm in a similar situation: a U.S. citizen (also a Canadian citizen) married to a Canadian and living in Canada. It isn't difficult to get your firearms back and forth across the border. When the time comes, get an ATT to the border crossings. This will make sense when the time comes. If you have a Pa. address, get your LCTF.

The Glock 23's barrel length makes the gun illegal for you in Canada. Why not a safety deposit box in Erie?;)

New York State presents another problem. Check into NYS gun laws before you try to transport a firearm within that state. You have to drive about an hour or so in NYS to get from Pa. to Ont.
 
Brutus said:
Here's a rude opening statement friend:
According to our wonderful law makers, two of your rifles: a Calico m100lr, and a dreaded AK47, are banned for civilian ownership in Canada.
The popular AR-15 is a restricted weapon in Canada (only legal for range shooting/competition, at a government approved gun range as well only, in other words you cannot take it hunting here)BTW, no problem with the Remington 700 rifle, for hunting/target shooting, but all legally owned firearms are currently registered via national database, whether long arms or pistols.
Canada also has an unusual law concerning barrel length of pistols/revolvers: Restricted barrel length 4.2 inches and longer, anything shorter than 4.2 inches, is a prohibited weapon here. Only citizens with grandfather status from 1996 or so, may continue to own them. Also any prohibited weapon (like your AK-47 or two inch snubnose revolver) can no longer be imported across our international borders.

There is provision in the law for wilderness carry to protect human life in the hinterland from critters, but if one wants to carry an adequate pistol/revolver, it's a long process to acquire ATC (Authority to Carry) and you must demonstrate a real need for a holstered weapon, often employment related, IE: prospecting, forestry (treeplanters) professional wildlife photography, geologist, etc.
Less of an issue for rifles or shotguns for the same chore.

Magazine limitations, 10 shot for pistol (rimfire & centrefire)
5 shot for centrefire semi-auto rifles and shotguns (one exception to M1 garand, 8 shot allowed at rifle range)
But some provinces have legal hunting limits for semi-automatic high power rifle & shotguns (usually 5 rounds)
No limit on manually operated rifles and manually operated shotgun magazine capacity for possession.(again maybe hunting limitations for capacity)
Rimfire rifle, no capacity limit for possession. There are unusual exemptions for up to 10 shot pistol magazines on long gun semi-auto centrefire rifles, (possession) but it's bloddy confusing for an introduction!!

And currently in Canada, there are very very few permits issued for protection of life from other evil persons.
I thought I heard here in Ontario in a population of 13 million, exactly 13 permits for equilavant, to American CCW were issued recently.

Up until 1996, the average Canadian gun owner, could almost guess what every gun sold in this country what category it fell into:

non-restricted
restricted
prohibited

But our law makers then outright banned some firearms on looks only (evil looking!) by OIC (Order in Council)
kind of like Presidential Exectutive Order in the USA.
Overnight previously non-restricted and restricted arms became prohibited, our worse, banned outright.
This made our laws much more confusing!

This is just a short and by no means complete, introduction to our misguided firearms laws.
Click to expand...
I thought the Calico would have been ok because I read that rimfire rifles have no magazine limit. I could have read it wrong, I guess. I forget exactly where I saw it, too. It's interesting that there is no magazine capacity limit on manual firearms. I could bring a pump shotgun with 8 round total capacity, eh? I was thinking that'd be hard to police just depending on what size shells you use. "Yes sir, this fits 5 3.5 inch shells or 8 2 inch shells..." I figured the AK would be a no no - that'll stay home... hidden from the world. One day I expect to be burned at the stake because of it :) I did know about the 4.1 inch barrel law. The G23 has a 4.02 inch barrel... grr.

sunray said:
Hi. Go here for a synopsis our laws. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/index-eng.htm
"...one exception to M1 Garand..." And the Lee-Enfield's 10 round mag. There are no other exceptions.
"...barrel length 4.2 inches..." 4.1" or 105mm's. One mm won't matter. No .25 or .32 calibre pistols except for the target pistols on a list.
Click to expand...
Sounds like I need to buy an Enfield soon ;)


aspect said:
Uh oh, AK47. This guy is one dangerous individual. When you come up here you'll have to get rid of that scary, evil gun and buy something nice and safe and friendly and totally different like a CZ858.
Click to expand...
Don't tell me the CZ858 is legal in canada but the AK isn't...

v65magnafan said:
Well, at least Erie County, Crawford, Mercer and Venango are about four hours away from Toronto.

I'm in a similar situation: a U.S. citizen (also a Canadian citizen) married to a Canadian and living in Canada. It isn't difficult to get your firearms back and forth across the border. When the time comes, get an ATT to the border crossings. This will make sense when the time comes. If you have a Pa. address, get your LCTF.

The Glock 23's barrel length makes the gun illegal for you in Canada. Why not a safety deposit box in Erie?;)

New York State presents another problem. Check into NYS gun laws before you try to transport a firearm within that state. You have to drive about an hour or so in NYS to get from Pa. to Ont.
Click to expand...

I have my PA LCTF. I do have to figure out the details about bringing a firearm through NY. I expect it should be fine - locked up, ammo separate, trigger lock. Right now I'm more worried about getting the PAL.




Thanks for the welcome and for the info :) My Fiance and I are going to be home over x-mas. I'll take the CFSC and the CRFSC at that time. Then I'll apply while I'm in Japan. Talked to the Ontario CFO and he said that'd be no problem. I do, however, have to get a police background check from the Japanese police and have it translated - one more major PITA :p

When we move back, we're going to be living in Peterborough. There is a Brinks position there and they require everyone to have their PAL. If it's so hard to get your Carry permit, how does Brinks get permission for their armored car guards/drivers? I'm looking to get into Law Enforcement so I figure this would be an alright stepping stone while my Fiance is going to school.
 
Mchaley, welcome (eventually) to Canada- the land of the free and the more or less disarmed.:p The firearms regs. will prob. drive you nuts but you'll be in good company with the rest of us.

As to Brinks and and carry permits, certain organizations' employees are authorized for carry, including armoured (I guess that'd be "armored" for you) car guards. It's just the rest of us average citizens who can't carry, but unless I'm mistaken, you will only be able to carry when actually on duty for Brinks. However, Canada is still relatively safe and you don't have to worry about being mugged/robbed while taking out the garbage or mowing the lawn.... yet.

I think there is a Brinks guard or two on CGN.

:) Stuart
 
mchaley said:
I thought the Calico would have been ok because I read that rimfire rifles have no magazine limit.
Click to expand...

Nope. In fact, the Calico was one of the ones that was named as being banned outright, and confiscated with no compensation from their owners. Others included the FAMAS, SPAS 12, Barrett M82, Tec-9, among others. There are several members here that either were victims of these confiscations, or know someone who was one (my father had an Intratec Tec-22 confiscated from him during this unjust, but legally sanctioned, round of theft).

mchaley said:
Don't tell me the CZ858 is legal in canada but the AK isn't...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is the truth, with two exceptions. There are 2 variants of the AK that are non-restricted - the Valmet M78 and the Valmet Hunter. However, they are rather rare, and usually run at least $4000 or above.


Sorry for sounding like a downer with all the bad news first, but it was probably better that you know what we are all up against. Welcome aboard, and good luck with the move.
 
josquin said:
Mchaley, welcome (eventually) to Canada- the land of the free and the more or less disarmed.:p The firearms regs. will prob. drive you nuts but you'll be in good company with the rest of us.

As to Brinks and and carry permits, certain organizations' employees are authorized for carry, including armoured (I guess that'd be "armored" for you) car guards. It's just the rest of us average citizens who can't carry, but unless I'm mistaken, you will only be able to carry when actually on duty for Brinks. However, Canada is still relatively safe and you don't have to worry about being mugged/robbed while taking out the garbage or mowing the lawn.... yet.

I think there is a Brinks guard or two on CGN.

:) Stuart
Click to expand...
I'd be interested in talking to them for sure. My Fiance lived in Toronto for a while and I visited fairly often. I was relatively surprised by the lack of violence in the area... aside from Jane and Finch area. Still, she carried dog spray incase of 'dogs' :)


fnrob said:
Nope. In fact, the Calico was one of the ones that was named as being banned outright, and confiscated with no compensation from their owners. Others included the FAMAS, SPAS 12, Barrett M82, Tec-9, among others. There are several members here that either were victims of these confiscations, or know someone who was one (my father had an Intratec Tec-22 confiscated from him during this unjust, but legally sanctioned, round of theft).



Unfortunately, this is the truth, with two exceptions. There are 2 variants of the AK that are non-restricted - the Valmet M78 and the Valmet Hunter. However, they are rather rare, and usually run at least $4000 or above.


Sorry for sounding like a downer with all the bad news first, but it was probably better that you know what we are all up against. Welcome aboard, and good luck with the move.
Click to expand...

Oh well... so two out of four of my firearms have to stay home... That Calico (.22) is great fun though. It's interesting for me because in the US, Norinco is outright banned and we can't get other firearms. What is banned in the US may be allowed in Canada and vise versa. Ah, gun laws...
 
Welcome!

Also - some AR's (maybe its all AR's?) can accept certain AR pistol mags so you can use a 10 round pistol mag with the AR.

Not an AR owner yet, but that is something to think about when you are at a gun range or approved gun club or shooting competition.

There are also 9 mm black rifles that accept 10 round mags. Beretta makes one that I know of...

I own a Swiss Arms Classic Green which is an unrestricted semi-auto rifle. So you can take it varmint hunting (.223) etc...

swiss02.gif
 
mchaley said:
It's interesting for me because in the US, Norinco is outright banned and we can't get other firearms. What is banned in the US may be allowed in Canada and vise versa. Ah, gun laws...
Click to expand...

Norinco is banned in the USA because they are made in China, but they are perfectly legal here in Canada. Also, it's funny how the CZ858 is non-restricted while the AK47 is prohibited in Canada, even though they look very similar. :rolleyes:
 
I'd love to buy an AR in the next few years. I've priced a full build at under $600 usd. The ARs that are legal in Canada, can they have the high cap mag well or no? Reason I'm asking is because in New Jersey and California (to the best of my knowledge) they allow AKs but with a low cap mag well. For those in Pennsylvania who buy a low cap, we can dremmel out the mag well to fit high caps. Anything like this in Canada?... guess I should be asking elsewhere in the forum :p
 
Mchaley,
Welcome to Canada! I come from the US as well.(denver)
lots of information on our ### ass gun laws. Enjoy!

btw
Rifle mags have to be pinned at 5, regardless if they are 30 rounds or drum mags. One execption is the AR pistol mags which you can purchase them pinned at 10rounds. weird, but thats our system and hopefully you will get used to it, and not scared of it!

and as stated above by cjs, there are a few semi auto's you can buy nonrestricted. I have the HK SL8, its .223 so I can hunt with it which is lots of fun. Search the forums friend!
cheers!
 
Captain Paul said:
Mchaley,
Welcome to Canada! I come from the US as well.(denver)
lots of information on our ### ass gun laws. Enjoy!

btw
Rifle mags have to be pinned at 5, regardless if they are 30 rounds or drum mags. One execption is the AR pistol mags which you can purchase them pinned at 10rounds. weird, but thats our system and hopefully you will get used to it, and not scared of it!

and as stated above by cjs, there are a few semi auto's you can buy nonrestricted. I have the HK SL8, its .223 so I can hunt with it which is lots of fun. Search the forums friend!
cheers!
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'm not in Canada yet but I will be in about a year.
Do the pinned mags come pinned? Can you use a pistol mag in a rifle - legally?

Oh, another question I had about capacity - Does the one in the chamber count towards the 10 round limit?
 
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