new project lost in the caliber choice

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kevin9934

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hi

i'm trying to find my new caliber and i'm overwhelm by the choice.
i want to stay in 6.5mm , must have a 30/35 degree shoulder and also have a long neck. I will run 140 gr berger vld in a AICS magazine so OAL must fit in the mag.
my current choice are: 6.5x47 lapua
6.5 creedmoor
6.5 s super Lr( http://6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php)
other??
i'm looking to replicate the performance of the 260 but with better bearing contact and 30 degree shoulder. I am really interested by the 6.5 super Lr that fit between the 6.5 creedmoor and the 260 rem but the reloading dies are hard to get.
I'm looking for advice and opignion

kevin
 
30 dg shoulder, 3000+ fps, Lapua brass available, all loading info from winners in F class on Accurate Shooter. will do everything better than Cartidges you have mentioned
6.5/284win
 
6.5-06 and 6.5-284 won't fit in a short action Aics mag. I would go 6.5 creedmore or if you want to get interesting 6.5 crusader. Other then that....I have no idea. 6.5 crusader is built off 6mm rem and will give you velocity in the 3000 range and will fit in short action if you remove the plate on the aics mags or use accurate mags.
 
Is there any great advantage to any of these over 260? I'm looking at these chamberings for a future rebarrel. I like the idea of 260 Imp. Less screwing with the brass has great appeal and Redding dies easily available. The question is the increase in performance you get from any of these "Imp" 6.5's worth the bother and expence?
 
c4pyro said:
6.5-06 and 6.5-284 won't fit in a short action Aics mag. I would go 6.5 creedmore or if you want to get interesting 6.5 crusader. Other then that....I have no idea. 6.5 crusader is built off 6mm rem and will give you velocity in the 3000 range and will fit in short action if you remove the plate on the aics mags or use accurate mags.
Click to expand...

6.5 crusader? I need to investigate.
As for the 6.5-284 Norma it's a good idea but don't work with heavy bullet in aics mags.
The creedmoor is interesting but the 6.5 super lr is better( if I can find a die set)
 
Lots of info on a 6mm crusader but not much on 6.5. George from gap "created" it. I might be ordering a reamer to try it myself.
 
Can anyone comment further on the 260 Imp? It looks to me like it's the equal to anything in a short action cartridge without a magnum sized bolt face.

I haven't paid much attention to the dimensions but it looks like the 260 Imp has just a wee bit more space for powder and a little less neck. Everything I seem to find is Techno weenies raving about the great design of this or that, or someone disguising an add as an artical. The only benefit I can see is the neck and oal of the case, and that's only on the surface.

Let's do a little reading between the lines shall we?

I see plenty of raving about how heavy bullets in the 260 need to be seated deeper and how in the Hornady manual the Creedmore exceeds the top performance of the plain 260. Hornady is obviously selling their pet cartridge. First thought is does seating an A-Max deeper in the 260 case actually eat up that much powder space. Use a little critical thinking and you'll see that the Hornady manual isn't comparing Apples to Apples, top speeds are attained through powders not shown in the 260 Rem section. The 260 OAL in the 140 section is less than 2.80 as well (what kind of sleazery is this???). Also for the 123gr A-Max Hornady only lists data for the Creedmore, the 260 only lists 129gr. Apply a little more critical thinking and the obvious fact that even Hornady lists more loads at a solid 2900 fps for the 129/260 combo leads me to believe that the 260 needs to wash the stink of Creedmore off it's foot!!!!! I'm not convinced (yet) there is any advantage to improving a 260 beyond the brass life. If there is a significant advantage then is it more of the same with the other 6.5mm wildcats of similar capacity and the 260 Imp?

What's the real advantage? It looks like pretty much none. IF the 260 Imp can give 50 or so fps more in the real world. Maybe then I can be convinced I should part with the extra $40 to get those 260 Imp Redding dies, and bugger around with the brass, pistol powder and breakfast...
 
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kevin9934 said:
6.5 crusader? I need to investigate.
As for the 6.5-284 Norma it's a good idea but don't work with heavy bullet in aics mags.
The creedmoor is interesting but the 6.5 super lr is better( if I can find a die set)
Click to expand...

If you need dies for the 6.5 SLR Robert Whitley sells them you can contact him by email at rcw3@erols.com or call him (215) 348-8789
he is in Pennsylvania and is the brain child of the SLR [also know as the super X back in the 60's].

Robert is the only way I know of to get dies for the SLR he gets them made by reading and they wont make them for anyone else, they cost about the same as what you would pay for other reading dies in another caliber.

There are other ways to make brass for the SLR if you don't want to buy a set from him, I use a 308 FL die to do the body and a 6br body die to do the shoulder and it works great for me , I also made myself a bushing die with my chambering reamer and use a forester 243 win micro adjust seater which can also be cut with the reamer to make a 30 degree shoulder bu not necessary.
The 6.5 Slr is a 260 with the shoulder pushed to 30 degrees and creates a nice long neck which is nice for long bullets.
 
the 6.5 wildcat is here to fill the need of people shooting with AICS magazine that still want a long neck and be able to be able to use the 140gr to it's maximum(COAL especially)

So as for the 6.5 creedmoor been exceeding the performance of the 260 rem it's not the reality. the creedmoor is equal to the 260 rem even in the AICS magazine configuration. I say this because if you remove the front plate in the magazine you can have 2.950'' of space, so about the ideal to use the Berger 140 gr vld to it's max performance in reloading...BUT it may not feed properly 100% of the time.
260 AI is not worth the time to fireform brass for 50-100 fps.
my opignion:
260 rem , 260 improved and ackely improved are better suited to top loader single shoot.
6.5xc,6.5x47 lapua,6.5 creedmoor,6mm crusader,6.5 crusader,6.5 super lr are specifically made to be used in magazine with a better barrel life and better bearing contact and a proven 30 degree shoulder for competition. BUT some of then still require fireforming or custom relaoding die...
it's all about the performance gain vs your use(competition/LR hunting/hobby) vs cost.
 
Kevin have you considered a 6mm SLr ? Go to JBM ballistics and run som numbers and you will see the that the 6mm slr has a slight advantage over the 6.5mm slr and will also be a shorter col so they will fit your mags better.
The 6mm slr will push a 105 at 3150 -3200 fps and the 6.5 a 140 at maybe 2750-2800 so @ 1000 yds the 6mm has better ballistics.
 
Yes, but if the accuracy node for the 115 Dtacs/berger vld is below 3150 which it appears to be then the 6x47, 243, 243 AI, 6 SLR and possibly the 6XC are all probably a better bet?
 
There is no better mouse trap...

I'm not trying to offend, just being rhetorical.

Looks to me like someone put a little cheese in a glue trap put his name on the box and now is selling it as THE greatest mouse trap. Never mind that if you put the regular one along the wall the mice aren't bright enough to go around it.

Has anyone loaded a 260/260 Imp and 6.5 Creedmore/6.5 SLR/6.5 superlongdong (I'm working on it) to 2.8" with the same bullet and stoked her up to max load with the same powder and chrony'd them? So the shorter case longer neck gives you more powder capacity for a given bullet loaded at 2.8", but only if the longer case has the same capacity to begin with. The difference in neck length is 0.046", and that's going to give the Creedmore more powder capacity loaded long? There's theroy and there's the real world.

So is this about "real world" improvements or a cool suit? Don't misunderstand, I like to see if I can improve things too. I'm the tard who recently asked if anyone had heard of/tried taking apart 17 HMR ammo so i could try to tweak the load for a $200 rifle. I'm dead serious. I google these great wildcats and what I see is an add pretending to be information. I'm not saying don't go buy that Gucci suit, I'm saying I like my Jeans and T-shirt. Again I'm not trying to insult you, but they both do the same job unless your trying to impress.

I'd be happy to put out the extra cash and deal with the extra hassels, IF it was more than a paper improvement. That's all I see here...from the Hornady 8th ed, 140 A-Max 8 powders tested all at 2700 fps with a col of 2.785". The Creedmore shows 4 Powders giving 2725 fps at 2.800" and these powders are not shown in the 260 Rem loads. If that doesn't smell funny to you I'll remember not to take off my gas mask if I hear you say "gas clear!".

So I ask again, and I have a 6.5 blank set aside and a rifle to put it on, is there any REAL advantage to this 6.5 SLR, I think I've shot down the Creedmore for anything other than getting something different, or if you like, a cool suit.
 
kevin9934 said:
Yes, but if the accuracy node for the 115 Dtacs/berger vld is below 3150 which it appears to be then the 6x47, 243, 243 AI, 6 SLR and possibly the 6XC are all probably a better bet?
Click to expand...

Do you base this on a barrel you have? The node(s) is specific to the barrel/bullet/powder/primer, if I'm not mistaken.
 
The problem as I see it is the "information" available is part fact and part advertisement. I'm haviing a little trouble seeing the facts to support the assertions from people who have an agenda, namely sell you or I a rifle/reamer/die set.
 
redshooter said:
What's the real advantage? It looks like pretty much none. IF the 260 Imp can give 50 or so fps more in the real world. Maybe then I can be convinced I should part with the extra $40 to get those 260 Imp Redding dies, and bugger around with the brass, pistol powder and breakfast...
Click to expand...

I have gone with the 260 ai and very happy With it. I am shooting 130 berg vld over H4831, and getting 1/2 to just over 1/4 moa at 100 yds, and that is fire forming lapua 260 brass. Have not ran it over the crony yet but figure it is getting close to 2900.

I have these bullets sitting at the lands and they still feed well out of my savage model 10. I think there are a lot of advantages with the 260 ai: good brass to choose from, bullet selection, low recoil, good speed, barrel life, don't need to trim much, great accuracy during fire forming( I would even fire form during competition), and dies are easy to get.
 
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