new shooter- ammo question

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Hephaistos

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Hey all,
so i'm a fairly new shooter, got my rpal about half a year back and since then have joined a range and have been shooting rentals, bough a gun (S&W 586) and am waiting for my Att to come back,
Have some questions about ammo, was browsing SRFC and they have 38 specials but in different types like TMJ, SWC, HBWC and RNFB, i'm not really knowledgeable in what i can shoot in my gun? I mean i know that i can shoot either .38 special or 357 mag but i'm not too sure about the different types of bullets, any help?
thanks
 
Here's a webpage that defines these terms. I hope it helps you better understand them. All of these will (should) work in your revolver and the various types a bullets used will leave different "holes" on the paper. Some will be more defined then others where as some will just rip the paper.

Check out this site:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=17


Hope this helps you out.
 
thanks that was pretty useful. What difference does the grain make, i realize that a higher grain makes for a heavier bullet but what effect does that have?
 
I'm not sure if many people ponder these things so deeply...

My advice:
1) practice a firm grip with your pistol at home. (squeeze it until your hand shakes, then release pressure until your hand is steady, that is the correct pressure)
2) find a good comfortable place for the trigger to contact your finger while pulling the trigger. at the knuckle? 2nd pad? 1st pad? etc...
3) practice dry firing your pistol in front of the tv all evening until you get steady sights in both double action and single action mode.
4) buy the cheapest ammo available and spend a day on the weekend shooting your pistol (remember safety; keep it pointed down range!)

After about 3000 rounds of 38 you may start to worry about bullet composition. Hopefully not too much.

cheers.
 
Hephaistos said:
thanks that was pretty useful. What difference does the grain make, i realize that a higher grain makes for a heavier bullet but what effect does that have?
Click to expand...

Its all about energy transfer and conservation of energy. For a given powder charge, bullet velocity will go up as bullet weight goes down...and felt recoil will go up as bullet weight goes up. Its a practical example of the third law of thermodynamics.
 
Hephaistos said:
thanks that was pretty useful. What difference does the grain make, i realize that a higher grain makes for a heavier bullet but what effect does that have?
Click to expand...

In terms of target shooting handguns, it doesnt make any difference.

Bullet type and weight matter when it comes to hunting. Which obviously you are not doing here in Canada with a handgun,.
 
skeetgunner said:
Its all about energy transfer and conservation of energy. For a given powder charge, bullet velocity will go up as bullet weight goes down...and felt recoil will go up as bullet weight goes up. Its a practical example of the third law of thermodynamics.
Click to expand...


This is what I always thought, but for me in my 9mm Sig226, 147 grain feels way softer than 115 grain or even 124 for that matter. My wife agrees with that, she hates the recoil of the 115 in her 239 but finds the 147 far more managable for her.

I don't get it.
 
Sometimes you need a certain bullet weight for certain competitions, or to get your pistol to shoot to point of aim if you don't have adj. sights or have run out of adjustment. All guns shoot dif. and some may prefer a certain weight of bullet or design. Most pistols have dif. feeding requirements to prevent jams and that's why roundnose are sometimes chosen. You just have to try dif. weights and designs/profiles to see which is most accurate and feeds best in your gun.IMHO
 
"...doesnt dry firing damage the..." Not with a centre fire. Dry firing is a long recognized training technique for sight picture, breathing and trigger control. Door knobs at the end of a hallway make good aiming points.
"...different types..." You can shoot any of those out of your revolver. Has to do with the bullet shape, whether or not there is a jacket and the bullet construction.
Most shooters use cast bullets due to the much higher cost of jacketed bullets. Cast bullets are driven slower than jacketed. Try to drive 'em at jacketed velocities and you'll get leading in the barrel. TMJ's and CMJ's, plated as opposed to having a jacket, are becoming popular on indoor ranges. Supposed to reduce the amount of lead in the air. Both are loaded with cast bullet data.
A lot of shooters shoot .38 Special out of a .357 for the same reason. Mind you, most are reloading too. Factory ammo gets expensive fast.
When you start reloading, you can load .357 cases to .38 velocities to eliminate the lube gunk build up in the cylinders that appears from shooting .38 Special in a .357. Has to come out before shooting .357. It's not a big deal. Comes out with regular cleaning. A .45 calibre brush is about the right size for .357 chambers.
 
I've been loading .357 Mag with 158 gr wadcutters for years to avoid the chamber rings Sunray mentions.

Hephaistos - There are essentially just three kinds of normal bullets. Cast bullets may deform a little, depending on how hard they are. They were the norm for hundreds of years and, as noted earlier, are primarily used now because they're cheap.

The full metal jacket came into use primarily as a military round to comply with the laws of war banning expanding bullets; in addition to the military, there are some in use for dangerous game like elephant where punching through a lot of heavy bone is critical. They also see some use in semi-auto pistols because they often tend to feed better.

The third type is the expanding bullet. These are the staple load for hunters and most police. There are dozens if not hundreds of different types and that's where the learning curve comes in. Some expand more than others, some are specifically designed to expand just a little bit, some virtually explode on impact. Frankly, while there is something to some being better than others, much of it is hype and marketing.

With a good make of modern revolver like the 586, you can safely fire any cartridge in .357 Magnum, .38 Special or .38 Long Colt (not that you're likely to see many of the latter on shelves).

Welcome to the dark side.
 
thanks a lot for the help guys,this clarifies things pretty well, i guess ill just have to go out and start shooting different types to figure out what works best.
"When you start reloading, you can load .357 cases to .38 velocities to eliminate the lube gunk build up in the cylinders that appears from shooting .38 Special in a .357. Has to come out before shooting .357. It's not a big deal."
Does this mean i should not shoot .38 spc and .357s same time or that i should clean between? i've shot both out of the same rental without cleaning between and i didnt experience any issues
 
Hephaistos said:
thanks a lot for the help guys,this clarifies things pretty well, i guess ill just have to go out and start shooting different types to figure out what works best.
"When you start reloading, you can load .357 cases to .38 velocities to eliminate the lube gunk build up in the cylinders that appears from shooting .38 Special in a .357. Has to come out before shooting .357. It's not a big deal."
Does this mean i should not shoot .38 spc and .357s same time or that i should clean between? i've shot both out of the same rental without cleaning between and i didnt experience any issues
Click to expand...

You can mix them up to your heart's content - both cases, any load - in any order you want. One advantage of a revolver over an auto is that it's less fussy - if you can get it into the chamber and if the pressure's not off the scale, it will work.

The problem mentioned stems from the fact that the .38 Spl case is slightly shorter than the .357 Mag and they tend to leave a ring of residue in the cylinder of a .357 Mag revolver, where the cases end. It's not a biggie by any means, just a minor PITA to clean.

BTW, WRT to seeing what works best, you may find that some loads are more accurate than others. That said, what you fire generally depends on what you are shooting at. If it's paper you're shooting at, the flat-nose wadcutters make nice round, easy-to-score holes. If you want higher-power loads, you're probably going to wind up with a hollowpoint or softpoint jacketed bullet because the cast ones tend to leave lead inside the barrel when they get too spicy.
 
I was browsing online for ammunition retailers and noticed in another thread that Canadian Bdx was recommended for inexpensive ammo while browsing their site i came across this:
.38/358 Swaged Match 148 HBWCAlloy Diamond cote or Molycote $75.00/1000
Would these be 38 spcs? the /358 throws me off abit which is why i'm asking, as well as the fact the price seems a little too good?
any help?
 
Hephaistos said:
I was browsing online for ammunition retailers and noticed in another thread that Canadian Bdx was recommended for inexpensive ammo while browsing their site i came across this:
.38/358 Swaged Match 148 HBWCAlloy Diamond cote or Molycote $75.00/1000
Would these be 38 spcs? the /358 throws me off abit which is why i'm asking, as well as the fact the price seems a little too good?
any help?
Click to expand...

OK, many of the cartridge names are sales-talk and branding. Most pistol rounds called '9mm' or '.38' have a true barrel diameter of .357" - give or take a bit. So when buying bullets - the projectiles - for a .38 Special, you buy ones labelled .357". As the only difference between the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum cartridges is the length of the two cases, they use precisely the same bullets.

What you are looking at, as jcpal notes, are bullets, not cartridges. Not a bad price for bullets, but not complete rounds you can take out of the box and fire.

One other thing you might want to be aware of - there are different names for the same cartridges. The .38 Special, for instance, is also called the '.38 Smith and Wesson Special', the 9 x 29mmR and (with a more-powerful-than-normal load) the .38/44.
 
I have a S & W 586. I reload semi wad cutters (158 grains) in .38 and .357 . However, when I'm getting low on brass. Which isn't often by any means, maybe every few years, if you start out with a lot of brass, I get whatever is on sale in the better name brands and I haven't had any problems. By the way, when reloading, the brass is the most expensive part of it. So try a few brands and don't worry about the grains of the bullets, just try a few different brands until you find one that makes your gun group well and go and have fun.
 
Well i've had it now for a week or two(ATT was was a lil slow in getting here), and i've tried out some difference ammunitions, grains and types. SWC seems to be the way to go, leaves nice holes on paper, tried wolf's swc and tmj and didnt really like the tmj, do like the 158 grain over the 138 i tried at my club, the 158 seems to have a better kick which i like, i want to feel like i'm shooting. Haven't tried many different types of .357 but that's coming. Overall though very happy with the gun, shoots beautifully, bullets seem to group themselves, thanks for the advice though!
 
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