New Shooter: Baby steps up to 6.5 Creedmoor?

[Manywhelps]

Hey everyone,

I'm a new shooter and I've been reading through the forums, but wanted some advice from all of you.

I eventually want to dabble in competition, but being a new shooter I feel like that is pretty far off. For now, I'll just be shooting at my range which only goes up to 300 yards.

Eventually I'll want to be shooting 6.5 Creedmoor, however the more I'm reading and thinking about it I'm wondering if that is overkill to start with?

Instead I figured it might be better starting with something like a 223. That way I can substantially cut down ammo costs, plus I could probably learn more at this distance on a less powerful calibre.


My questions to all of you are this:

1. With what I mentioned above in mind, do you think .223 is a good calibre choice? Or would you recommend something else (300y range and low(er) ammo costs).

2. If I get a .223 would it be worth while getting a chassis system for the gun? I figured it would help a bit with the lighter round out at 300y. Then ultimately I'd move the chassis over to a new action when I switch to 6.5


Any input that I can get from all of your experience is appreciated

 

[rugbydave]

.223 is a great round for 300 yards and in. If you're shooting heavy for caliber rounds (think 75grs and up) it's great inside 600-800 yards, depending on conditions (wind mostly). It's relatively cheap to shoot and you get great barrel life. You can also shoot match ammo for precision work and cheaper 55gr ammo for positional practice (with targets scaled appropriately to how well your rifle groups the cheaper ammo).

As far as whether it will be "worthwhile" to get a chassis or not is kind of up to you. Depending on what rifle you get, a chassis can be the easiest way of getting a detachable magazine system as well as the ability to really "fit" the rifle to you (adjustable cheek piece, length of pull, etc). All of my rifles are currently in chassis, with the MDT ACC being my favourite, especially for shooting matches.

My suggestion for you, based on the direction you seem to want to go in (and not having any idea what your budget is) would be to get a good barrelled action (Remington, Tikka, Howa) in .223 and drop it in the chassis of your choice. When you decide to move to the 6.5 Creedmoor, get a new bolt (with a .308 boltface) and have a good gunsmith chamber a new barrel in 6.5 for you. You can then swap barrels and bolts back and forth, still using your .223 for practice and you 6.5 for matches. It's super easy to swap barrels, all you need is an action wrench, barrel vise and a torque wrench, it takes about 10 minutes. This way, you can practice with exactly the gun you plan to compete with, albeit in a different chambering, becoming super familiar with your setup while not burning through your 6.5 barrel.

The caveat to all this is that you need to be somewhat honest with yourself just how many rounds you'll put down range in a given year. You should get 3000 rounds out of a 6.5 Creedmoor. If you shoot 50 rounds/week that's 60 weeks of shooting. If that's all you plan to shoot (or less) and you eventually want the 6.5, just get one to start off with and enjoy it

 

[blasterbolt]

I'm a new shooter myself.
1. I started with a Tikka T3x in .223. Easy to shoot as well as practice shooting in general. IE, breathing, body composure, etc. It's basically stock aside from bolt handle. I have been able to shoot out to 400 yards with very little effort. I buy Hornady Steel Match .223 75 gr in bulk and the rifle shoots sub-MOA all day long at 100 yards.

2. I would say, go and hold different rifles of different makes.
I bought a Remington 700 SPS Tactical that I just couldn't shoot under 1 MOA at 100 yards. Dropped in MDT HS3 and I immediately shrank my groups to sub-MOA.

Shoot me a PM if you're interested in more details.

 

[Got Juice?]

If you do not reload, I would not shoot a 6.5 for long range.

If you are just starting, I would get a Savage 10 or 12 in 308 or 223, and as good a scope as you can afford, and get some range time in.

Or I would look on the EE here and find a Savage or Tikka or Rem in either calibre and go from there.

Practice makes perfect. Glass is more important than the name on the side of the gun. And I would call Jerry from Mystic Precision for Guidance. He competes a fair bit, and is geared to long range shooting. His advice in this area is sound, and he can make recommendations to keep you on budget, and most importantly on target.

 

[IvoB]

Tikka T3x would be a good starter learn the basics of shooting etc from scope set up to proper technique. Once, you think you've mastered it - the reloading Gods will start to whisper in your ear and you'll will see why making your own ammo makes sense. You probably have a few thousands empty cases already in a bucket with 223 written on it. Instead of spending a few thousands on another gun - you may want to replace the barrel on yours with a custom barrel by a competent gunsmith. In, the end you will see why building off your existing action is smart. A Tikka action is trued from the factory and requires no additional work.

 

[redshooter]

Some good advice here, if I may add to the conversation, I'm not swimming in coin so I've taken the low road. I was actually considering pawning my .223 upper and getting a .22LR to go along with my 6mm CM. In my case I shoot at Petawawa fairly often so I have to deal with cartridge restrictions, so the .223 stays put. A .223 is a great starting point, it can be dirt cheap to shoot, and with the right projectile/powder charge it easily can shoot well past 500 m. The last time I was on the 600 m range I was making consistent centre of mass hits on a Fig. 11 at 600 with my HBAR AR-15 and 75 gr Match hand loads. I'm a huge fan of Savage Rifles, most bang for buck, IMO, but in .223 you have to get one of the more expensive Model 12 Target Rifles in order to get a 1 in 7 twist barrel. Tikka, and Ruger have 1 in 8 twist barrels that will allow you to shoot up to 80 gr bullets, of those two I'd take Tikka for no other reason than I've owned one. One of the advantages of a Savage is that as rugbydave stated, you could assemble a switch barrel rifle, it's even easier with a Savage (headspacing, not sure about the other prefits, but Savage's design allows "no gunsmith" headspacing). One thing is certain, my new Savage 10 in 6mm CM has left me giggling every time I've left the range in the last few weeks. The groups just keep getting tighter, 0.330" according to my caliper, best group I've shot to date.

 

[Manywhelps]

@Rugbydave - The re-chambering isn't something that I had considered before, but that's a good idea. Thank you.

@blasterbolt - Thanks for that info, definitely helpful. Tikka was one of the actions I was considering but I want to do some side by side comparisons first (as you mentioned).

@Got Juice? - I think I'll likely get into reloading but if I'm being honest with myself that will probably be a ways a way. Which I feel is another reason to delay moving to 6.5 (until I'm ready for to start reloading myself).

As for scopes I've checked a few out and I think I'm going for a VIPER PST GEN II (5-25x50 FFP). From what I've tested around that price range, it was the one I've liked the most and I feel like it is enough optics for any gun that I will eventually get.

@IvoB - Thanks that's one of the actions that I was consider

@redshooter - Thanks. To be honest I didn't know that .223 could get out that far. I was looking at trajectories and I just figured with how much drop off there was, there would also be a lot of variance.. So that's good to know.


Thanks to all of you for the awesome and very timely replies. It's nice seeing the community so active. I can already tell I'm going to enjoy these boards

 

[Mystic Precision]

I have shot alot of 223's. I am very fond of this cartridge.. I have competed with it (FTR and PRL), I train with it, and I hunt with it. Very versatile and for centerfire, "low" cost. I use it for training out to 800yds... 1000yds is a bit far especially in higher winds but that is also not bad to simulate training for 1 mile shooting.

BUT you have to reload to really get the most out of it and you have suggested, that is not in the near term.

So I would also suggest you skip centerfire for now and go rimfire... Very good match rimfire ammo is a fraction of the cost of crappy factory ammo. A good shooting rimfire can start as little as $300 ($600 is ideal). Barrels last a lifetime. You can put alot of rds downrange and not worry about cooling the barrel (I assume you are also limited for time at the range).

Rimfires are unforgiving to poor gun handling so it will teach you to be very consistent and repeatable in your set up and follow through. A CF rifle that weights 14lbs is going to mask alot of driver error that a 6lbs rimfire will show you. Recoil is not an issues so you will be able to watch your own impacts and hopefully, bullet trace.

And most importantly.... it will let you learn to read the wind. 300yds offers similar drift values to a 308 at 1000yds. 223 would make this distance pretty straightforward... with a rimfire, you will ALWAYS be on your toes and when you become acutely aware of your surroundings, you will have a leg up on many shooters that just let the rifle ballistics handle their concerns... or those who can't/don't spend enough time far enough away where it really matters.

There are now more and more rimfire PRL type matches starting up across Canada cause most ranges can host them... CF, not so much. Facebook search for CRPS and Outlaw Rimfire... US versions are NRL22. So the time spent here has lot of options to compete if you want to.

If you want to discuss more, send me an email.

Jerry

 

[redshooter]

I think I'll likely get into reloading but if I'm being honest with myself that will probably be a ways a way. Which I feel is another reason to delay moving to 6.5 (until I'm ready for to start reloading myself).

Are you aware that there are hand presses? Not ideal, but they do work, I used a Lyman hand press for years before I got proper gear. It's low volume, but then reloading for precision isn't a high volume proposition as a rule.