Newbee question about carbine and shotgun shoots.

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magz

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Is there such a thing as IPSC style competition that are carbine and shotgun only for people like me that have a non-restricted only PAL?
I've been looking for a while now and they only place I can find is a single range in Ontario (a little far for me from Calgary) that has some carbine only competitions.

Even the local clubs and ranges within reasonable drives from here that offer "dynamic" carbine and shotgun courses have a handgun course pre-requisite.

Does anyone know of a club / league (not very interested in action cowboy shooting for now) that offers something like this that's either carbine only or shotgun only or both? or is the only way to do this type of competitive shooting involve an RPAL, then purchasing a semi-auto handgun, then black badge and on from there?
 
There is IPSC rifle, but currently you still need a black badge for it. I attended a black rifle shoot in Quebeckistan of all places that was a lot of fun. Organized by their PPC people, didn't require holster certs and I shot my non-restricted T97. Don't have anything like that in Ontario (the closest thing to it would be service conditions), even though the organizer of our IPSC rifle nights got the IPSC director to allow club members without holster cert to participate in the IPSC rifle shoots. No walkins without BB though. Probably easier to get restricted and holster cert than to go scrounging for events of this type.
 
Most people who like to "run and gun" are handgun enthusiasts.

Therefore; Most "run and gun" style shooting events will contain a handgun portion.
 
Trying to participate in Ipsc without your rpal is more trouble than what it's worth... especially if your not doing handgun
 
From what I understand (could be wrong) having long gun-only bb has been approved at the regional level but the sections don't have it implemented. I'm in favour of it, but it's an uphill battle in an organization that has been accepting restricted licenced shooters only for decades. Many don't see the benefits of something that doesn't affect them personally. With the churn rate that we're having, I say it's almost a necessity to attract some fresh blood.
 
Hey, If there isn't a game you want to do being run by someone else... Why not set it up yourself?

I'm sure you'd get shooters to attend.

Ive been involved in running many multi gun matches and yes, the 2gun shoots have all been pistol/shotgun or pistol/carbine... (Just did one of those this past weekend.)
Not sure why... I guess just 'cuz.
 
Medicine Hat will run 2x 3 gun (Rifle/Pistol/Shotgun) Action matches in or about mid April, June 2014. No Black Badge required. We are trying to cater to entry level shooters that have never shot matches before and don't want to (yet) invest thousands of dollars into kit.
 
I think that's internet speak for "I want something and I have to convince people the world will end if I don't get it"
 
PapaHotel01 said:
I think that's internet speak for "I want something and I have to convince people the world will end if I don't get it"
Click to expand...

What do I want? If I wanna shoot long guns, we do IPSC rifle at my club. There's also service conditions, CQB, 3gun shoots, FQT's PPC-style rifle shoots (after the success of the first one they are planning on organizing several in 2014).. I don't need IPSC for that and I already have my handgun black badge. Bottom line is that with record intake, our total membership numbers are stagnating. While there is no magic silver bullet to fix that, expanding the member base to other equipment users can't hurt can help.. There are other solutions like mentorship programs etc etc etc, but we need a holistic approach. Rifles are "cool" again and there are lots of good options to run and gun with. We already have a framework for that, just gotta offer training and organize events. If we don't someone else will. There's a lot more to IPSC than just handguns.
 
TRaTSeRiF, you're wasting air here. mrclean is the Ontario's Black Badge coordinator and he and PapaHotel01 been shooting IPSC longer than many other members can remember... but your facts about membership numbers are not quite accurate.

Anyways, there are theory that Ontario don't have enough ranges and volunteers to spread them between multiple IPSC disciplines, so long gun matches would decrease number of handgun matches...
 
Still doesn't change the fact that we're IPSC and not IPHSC. In addition to handgun, we also got shotgun, rifle, mini-rifle when it comes to actual firearms. Shotgun (and several good rifle choices) means no restricted hassles, while mini-rifle allows new shooters to get into the sport on the cheap and still be competitive while being able to shoot matches at indoor handgun-only ranges. None of this affects me directly as I'll be joining another region in a year or so, but it would be hard to logically argue the benefits (for both IPSC Canada and shooting community in general) of diversifying our member base.
 
Stagnating with our highest retention rates ever? With the largest membership we've ever had? Record number of Black Badges given out? Interesting.
 
PapaHotel01 said:
Stagnating with our highest retention rates ever? With the largest membership we've ever had? Record number of Black Badges given out? Interesting.
Click to expand...

Even if I am wrong numbers-wise (teach me for taking info from campaign "speeches" as gospel), that still doesn't change the following facts:
1) IPSC is not IPSHC - we have other firearms in the books
2) There is a genuine interest in action shooting among people using other firearms
3) We could increase our membership a lot more if we accepted other firearms already officially recognized by our sport
 
1) yes, but it's where we started, what the majority of our members compete with and argueably what we do best.
2) yes, and if has to be looked at but there are other disciplines that cover that as well. Personally rather than IPSC getting involved I would rather see Multigun take off up here. It looks to me like they do the 3 gun events better than IPSC does.
3) agreed, but what do we do with them? I already have people telling me they can't get into clubs in the GTA because they are full and not accepting new members. The clubs we do have only have a limited number of weekends IPSC can use the ranges. As it sits now the pistol matches are over subscribed in almost every case with wait lists longer than the number of people who are in the match. To take on more rifle/shotgun events means we have to give up range time and space that we can I'll afford to give up.
 
Pat, you're raising some valid points. There is no simple and easy solution to this, but bottom line is that globally, the confederation recognized the need to include other types of firearms into the sport. I am not sure how big it is in other sections, but in Ontario, covering about 1/2 of the regional membership, I saw only one long gun event in the current 5 week period. Yes, other groups are stepping in and doing a great job, but sitting this one out might come back and bite us in the posterior. Long guns are gaining in popularity and not getting in on the action would mean eating their dust a few years from now.
 
It's never really been hugely popular in IPSC, rifle and shotgun events have been a part of IPSC in one form or another for close to 30 years and its never really caught on (I shot some Practical rifle and shot gun back in the late '80s and it wasn't new then), popular within a small group of shooters yes, but not as widely seen as pistol only events. Almost all of the current growth of 3 gun events has been spurred on by groups outside of IPSC. Even in USPSA 3 gun was largely fading due to the Mulitigun popularity. USPSA actually had to pretty much drop 3 gun and adopt Multigun to keep long guns in USPSA.
 
As an example, a 25 slot shotgun match at Wentworth didn't even fill on the online signup (Everyone that went told me they had a great time) but a pistol match held on the same day would have probably put 60+ slots on the calendar for pistol shooters and not only filled but likely 40-50 people on the wait list.
 
I don't mean to sound negative about shooting rifle and shotgun because I like them too. However until we can get to a point where we are having enough pistol matches and slots at pistol matches to satisfy our current demand I don't see giving up range time to something that is not as popular.
 
TRaTSeRiF said:
Long guns are gaining in popularity and not getting in on the action would mean eating their dust a few years from now.
Click to expand...

Why worry about "eating dust"?
IPSC does a good job with IPSC handgun.... watering down already scarce resources to add long guns to the game might not be wise...
My own opinion is that IPSC pistol and shotgun are viable. Adding rifle.... I dunno.
For me it's about real estate.... IMHO shooting a rifle at less than 50 yards is a waste of ammo.... Its a "rifle". You need space to really see what it can do. We don’t have enough space.
and if we did have space... IPSC would have to also see its way clear to accepting new/different targetry. Paper would be out.
Self setting steel would have to be used. This may not sit well with the hard core IPSC range lawyers.

I have been involved with organizing and running many multi gun matches over the past few years and although yes... Lots of people "express" interest it's only the same 50 or so shooters who actually show up over and over.
So... I think even if IPSC started hosting their flavor of rifle match the number of shooters who'd actually come out will be few.
As far as increasing IPSC membership by offering more options... Again, spreading thin.
If someone wants to shoot IPSC they should get off their ass, get a handgun, take the BB course and shoot a match.

Those who are truly motivated to shoot IPSC will do what it takes to get going.. The rest will just talk about getting into it.
 
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