newbie to reloading; Savage 12 groups
- Thread starter cjd966
- Start date
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Possibly barrel and or action heating, and moving against the stock.
You need to shoot more to confirm it.
First thing I'd try after checking that the barrel floats as designed, is tightening the stock screws.
From there I'd relieve a bit of the barrel channel, and bed the mounting lugs.
You need to shoot more to confirm it.
First thing I'd try after checking that the barrel floats as designed, is tightening the stock screws.
From there I'd relieve a bit of the barrel channel, and bed the mounting lugs.
There's nothing wrong with those groups. A bit over a half inch with loads for another rifle is dandy. How well do those loads shoot out of your buddy's rifle? What calibre?
However, you need to work up a load for your rifle. No two rifles will shoot the same ammo the same way. Working up the load for your rifle may, I say again may, decrease the group size further out of your rifle. You can lose the crimp too. I'd leave the bedding alone though. It works just fine.
However, you need to work up a load for your rifle. No two rifles will shoot the same ammo the same way. Working up the load for your rifle may, I say again may, decrease the group size further out of your rifle. You can lose the crimp too. I'd leave the bedding alone though. It works just fine.
I know I need to develop my own load (I'm just getting into it), this just happend to be decent in my gun too (he's shooting a tikka .223, btw).
I was really just curious about the two-group pattern. The barrel was pretty warm because I was shooting previous to these groups without paying much attention to the barrel heating, until I realized and slowed down (I'm new to this!). Could that have done it? I will check the stock screws, too, as I had the stock off recently and I don't have a torque wrench (yet) to tighten them properly.
thanks for the input
I was really just curious about the two-group pattern. The barrel was pretty warm because I was shooting previous to these groups without paying much attention to the barrel heating, until I realized and slowed down (I'm new to this!). Could that have done it? I will check the stock screws, too, as I had the stock off recently and I don't have a torque wrench (yet) to tighten them properly.
thanks for the input
"...curious about the two-group pattern..." Hi. The crimped and not crimped loads can cause a group size difference. Crimping isn't required for most cartridges and is detrimental to accuracy. Neck tension is usually enough for hunting loads. Crimping is really only needed for heavy recoiling cartridges and for lever actions. Cartridges in lever action tube mags tend to loosen the bullets under recoil without a light crimp. That doesn't apply with .223 bolt actions.
What rifle do you have? A rifle that shoots that well(at 100 yards?) with a warm barrel with undeveloped loads isn't one you want to lose any time soon. A bit over .75" isn't too shabby either.
You don't really need a torque wrench either. They're slick and kind of pricey, but you have to know how much torque to use. Relax, it's a trial and error thing. As tight as you can get it with your screwdriver should be fine. Anyway, working up the load is usually more important. However, glass bedding it and doing a trigger job can help too. More relaxing. Deal with one thing at a time. The primary thing is having fun shooting.
When you get that far, do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in.
What rifle do you have? A rifle that shoots that well(at 100 yards?) with a warm barrel with undeveloped loads isn't one you want to lose any time soon. A bit over .75" isn't too shabby either.
You don't really need a torque wrench either. They're slick and kind of pricey, but you have to know how much torque to use. Relax, it's a trial and error thing. As tight as you can get it with your screwdriver should be fine. Anyway, working up the load is usually more important. However, glass bedding it and doing a trigger job can help too. More relaxing. Deal with one thing at a time. The primary thing is having fun shooting.
When you get that far, do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in.
shotgunjoe
CGN Regular
- Location
- winnipeg mb
Lots of good information,I have questions for you CJD966.Since you are new to this ,as you say, while you aree shooting do you stop to talk in between shots?
Are the bullets landing in one group then the second group or one here then there then back and forth?
Do you change position or squeeze the trrigger different for each shot?
How solid is your front rest,and is the sling stud hitting it?
These are really good groups as they are and the rifle shows obvious potential as does the shooter.Some times it just takes as little more focus and concentration,keep up the good work.
Are the bullets landing in one group then the second group or one here then there then back and forth?
Do you change position or squeeze the trrigger different for each shot?
How solid is your front rest,and is the sling stud hitting it?
These are really good groups as they are and the rifle shows obvious potential as does the shooter.Some times it just takes as little more focus and concentration,keep up the good work.
Talk to who??
I have slowed my shooting down and take a break after each group (walk to the target and back, or just relax for a few minutes). I try to keep the same position, and squeeze the trigger the same each time. I can't remember the "order" of the shots anymore. I'm shooting off front and rear bags - the front stud isn't touching the bag but the rear one probably is (should I just take it out?)
I tried some 75gr A-Max loads today, here's the groups:
What would you say is the next step for these loads? The 25.0gr group would be just as good as the 24.4gr group if it wasn't for the flyer... and the 24.8gr group is spread horizontally but not so much vertically (there was the slight breeze, but I was trying to shoot only when it stopped). Should I just try them all again?
BTW I forgot to check the stock screws until just now, and found I was able to tighten them up by hand. They weren't loose, just not as tight as they could be. Is that probably a big factor??
Thanks for the help
-Chris
I have slowed my shooting down and take a break after each group (walk to the target and back, or just relax for a few minutes). I try to keep the same position, and squeeze the trigger the same each time. I can't remember the "order" of the shots anymore. I'm shooting off front and rear bags - the front stud isn't touching the bag but the rear one probably is (should I just take it out?)
I tried some 75gr A-Max loads today, here's the groups:
What would you say is the next step for these loads? The 25.0gr group would be just as good as the 24.4gr group if it wasn't for the flyer... and the 24.8gr group is spread horizontally but not so much vertically (there was the slight breeze, but I was trying to shoot only when it stopped). Should I just try them all again?
BTW I forgot to check the stock screws until just now, and found I was able to tighten them up by hand. They weren't loose, just not as tight as they could be. Is that probably a big factor??
Thanks for the help
-Chris
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
These are my targets from last week
dropped the third shot on the 22-250 twice, cannot be the load. Found out I was inhaling a bit and pulling the trigger (shot low & right).
On my .308 shot 1&2 good, 3rd breathe and pull (low and right). Made the correction hammered 4& 5 home.
I am still learning too, but the biggest thing i have to work on is to be consistent in my shooting. The load will only get me half the way there.
Here is an interesting link to group diagnosis helped me alot. Have fun.
www.rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm
shotgunjoe
CGN Regular
- Location
- winnipeg mb
Yep,screw loose could be a factor in group separation.
Your putting five shots into close to half an inch with a factory rifle that hasn't been played with,this is very good.One other thing to try is overall length.Try increasing this by 10 thou.
Your putting five shots into close to half an inch with a factory rifle that hasn't been played with,this is very good.One other thing to try is overall length.Try increasing this by 10 thou.
I think you need to work on your shooting technique more than load development. Targets 1 & 3 of your last post look like your pulling your shots to the right. Try being conscious of how you are "squeezing" the trigger. Your trigger finger should come straight back and not pull the rifle's point of impact to the right.
Based on vertical dispersion ALONE I'd try a few more groups of the 75 gr. A-MAX loads with 24.4gr. Varget with perfect practice in mind.
