Night Vision Gen 3 II
- Thread starter nvgr
- Start date
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
What would you like to know?
I was curious whether the ability to see in overcast conditions with no area ambient lighting significantly enhances viewing from a Gen 2+ to a Gen3 Omni 5 or 6 level version? We are pretty much restricted to non US technology and non US domestic pricing($$).
For conditions with little to no ambient light all units will suffer no matter what the Gen... but GII or even GII+ will be pretty well unusable. This is a little subjective.
You can use an illuminator but I really don't like them. They tend to reflect a lot of IR light in the near field and saturate the image.
GIII and higher are a big leap up in performance, but also a BIG leap in price. Plus the whole availability on this side of the boarder and service ... warranty....
I find GII+ "barely acceptable" but that is just me. Works well in an urban environment with a fair amount of ambient light from houses, streetlights.... but out in the country, overcast..no moon, GII gets pretty dark. Even G3 will start to get "noisy" with increased gain.
In the end there are a lot of variables. All GII (and even GIII) are not created equal. Performance claims like, ability to see a man sized target at "X" yards can depend a lot on conditions. Guy standing in a gravel pit will be easier to pick out than a guy in a field.
So try and see if you can look though some devices...which is hard to arrange ... or take a big leap of faith.
GC
You can use an illuminator but I really don't like them. They tend to reflect a lot of IR light in the near field and saturate the image.
GIII and higher are a big leap up in performance, but also a BIG leap in price. Plus the whole availability on this side of the boarder and service ... warranty....
I find GII+ "barely acceptable" but that is just me. Works well in an urban environment with a fair amount of ambient light from houses, streetlights.... but out in the country, overcast..no moon, GII gets pretty dark. Even G3 will start to get "noisy" with increased gain.
In the end there are a lot of variables. All GII (and even GIII) are not created equal. Performance claims like, ability to see a man sized target at "X" yards can depend a lot on conditions. Guy standing in a gravel pit will be easier to pick out than a guy in a field.
So try and see if you can look though some devices...which is hard to arrange ... or take a big leap of faith.
GC
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
Gas-Can's a good guy to talk to on this!
My perspective: Think of them as two different scenarios...
1. overcast, no-moon nights
Gen 2 will still work here. Part of your decision to use or not use IR illumination depends on your gear and your use. I'd always suggest buying an NVD with manual gain. If you're out checking the cows, or scouting for yotes, an IR illuminator/spotlight with your manual gain turned down will help a lot. You add some light to the scene, get some reflection off animal eyes etc, but not wash out the scene. If you're in a position where your worried about flagging yourself with IR light, Airsoft/Afghanistan/Whatever then you crank the gain up and get a more useable scene.
2. Indoors, no-ambient light conditions
Gen 2 will still work, but the hardest part will not be brightness, the hardest part will be reaching for an opening a door handle etc. Your focus is unlikely to work as well indoors using Gen 2. When there's no light you want an IR flood light. So something low power with a wide beam rather than a focussed illuminator. Most good NVDs will have a built in IR source, but the surefire helmet lights are also a good (relatively) cheap way to get diffused IR light.
Gen 2 versus Gen 3 is a hard choice to make. You can get decent Gen 2 for under $2k, but it seems that you can't get any legit Canadian Gen 3 for much less than $5k. In the USA they get Gen 3 for $3k, so there I'd choose it everytime. But up here, you really have to evaluate the cost-to-improvement ratio.
My perspective: Think of them as two different scenarios...
1. overcast, no-moon nights
Gen 2 will still work here. Part of your decision to use or not use IR illumination depends on your gear and your use. I'd always suggest buying an NVD with manual gain. If you're out checking the cows, or scouting for yotes, an IR illuminator/spotlight with your manual gain turned down will help a lot. You add some light to the scene, get some reflection off animal eyes etc, but not wash out the scene. If you're in a position where your worried about flagging yourself with IR light, Airsoft/Afghanistan/Whatever then you crank the gain up and get a more useable scene.
2. Indoors, no-ambient light conditions
Gen 2 will still work, but the hardest part will not be brightness, the hardest part will be reaching for an opening a door handle etc. Your focus is unlikely to work as well indoors using Gen 2. When there's no light you want an IR flood light. So something low power with a wide beam rather than a focussed illuminator. Most good NVDs will have a built in IR source, but the surefire helmet lights are also a good (relatively) cheap way to get diffused IR light.
Gen 2 versus Gen 3 is a hard choice to make. You can get decent Gen 2 for under $2k, but it seems that you can't get any legit Canadian Gen 3 for much less than $5k. In the USA they get Gen 3 for $3k, so there I'd choose it everytime. But up here, you really have to evaluate the cost-to-improvement ratio.
Thanks TVPP. Yes...gain turned down is counter intuitive...right now with the dollar as it is 5000 is a little low for a Gen3 in Canada. ..for what promises to be a higher quality tube is 6000 Cdn plus..
...and then I agree that u probably want to judge that unit since there can be some differences in quality between one tube and the next...
Even buying used can be risky I have found. ..I have an advertised as a Gen3 Newcon that turned out to be a Gen 2. ..the seller was confused and didn't know what he had..price was good for a Gen 2 so I kept it..
...and then I agree that u probably want to judge that unit since there can be some differences in quality between one tube and the next...
Even buying used can be risky I have found. ..I have an advertised as a Gen3 Newcon that turned out to be a Gen 2. ..the seller was confused and didn't know what he had..price was good for a Gen 2 so I kept it..
I've got Gen 2+ monoculars, and I've never noticed any problem with them in the lowest light conditions. Of course on bright nights, the scene is much brighter, but I don't have any complaints. However, if you are looking for critters in really dark conditions, I think it will be difficult. If you can afford it, I would recommend thermal vision, it makes a world of difference but is really expensive. Look at Tactical Imports too, they carry Canadian made NV and thermal optics.
Hey it seems I lost my post...so if two show up later u'll know why.
Hey great info on the gain. ..it's counter intuitive...go figure. I guess the low gain will help with tube life. I wonder if IR light is a tube life enemy also?
I'll have to look up the Surefire lights..I bet the new gen IR light is going to be hard to find up here. ..I think it's the L4 technology that's guarded to stay stateside?
The NVG world seems a bit dark and murky to me...it's hard to really know what ur buying...unless u crack open a unit and research each tube...or have a testing unit...
I bought a Gen 2 plus new ..no spec sheet came with it...and after a half dozen calls I still don't know what the tube ' s specs are..
...another one NVG I own.( a Photonis tube in it I suspect)..the manufacturer said they cannot disclose what tube I have or anything at all about it..
Geesh. .
Hey great info on the gain. ..it's counter intuitive...go figure. I guess the low gain will help with tube life. I wonder if IR light is a tube life enemy also?
I'll have to look up the Surefire lights..I bet the new gen IR light is going to be hard to find up here. ..I think it's the L4 technology that's guarded to stay stateside?
The NVG world seems a bit dark and murky to me...it's hard to really know what ur buying...unless u crack open a unit and research each tube...or have a testing unit...
I bought a Gen 2 plus new ..no spec sheet came with it...and after a half dozen calls I still don't know what the tube ' s specs are..
...another one NVG I own.( a Photonis tube in it I suspect)..the manufacturer said they cannot disclose what tube I have or anything at all about it..
Geesh. .
Thanks Apollyon ...I have the Therm App from Israel. ..it's got its uses but I think ur right, the IR option is very good. Unfortunately the one I think would be the cat's meow is $$$$. I'm blown away watching u tube videos on what the air forces have in IR airborne scopes.....un believable what can be seen and from a long ways away..
I'm waiting for the new Google glass to see if the Thermapp would be able to " paint " the thermal image via Bluetooth or wifi on the glass...it would be handier than carrying a tablet or smartphone around in ur hand/wrist mount..
I'm waiting for the new Google glass to see if the Thermapp would be able to " paint " the thermal image via Bluetooth or wifi on the glass...it would be handier than carrying a tablet or smartphone around in ur hand/wrist mount..
If you are good with electronics, you could try this.. https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=flir . The resolution is low, so what you would do would be to overlay that image on top of actual video to make it augmented reality. However, you'd need to do some electronics and coding. Eventually I'll get around to it when I have time. If you to turn it into a monocular that you can wear, then you are going to need some optics too.
There is one thing I don't like about FLIR, and that is that they seem to want to restrict our refresh rates down to about 10 Hz or so. The GSCI stuff made in Canada here has much higher refresh rates.
There is one thing I don't like about FLIR, and that is that they seem to want to restrict our refresh rates down to about 10 Hz or so. The GSCI stuff made in Canada here has much higher refresh rates.
richmyster
CGN frequent flyer
Tactical imports has these 2 gen 3 options for under 4k
http://www.tacticalimports.ca/gsci-gs14-gen-3-monocular-p-160.html
http://www.tacticalimports.ca/gsci-pvs14-gen-3-monocular-p-208.html
I don't know much about night vision though... I was pondering over the GS-14 gen 3 myself... I wish I could see them in person.
http://www.tacticalimports.ca/gsci-gs14-gen-3-monocular-p-160.html
http://www.tacticalimports.ca/gsci-pvs14-gen-3-monocular-p-208.html
I don't know much about night vision though... I was pondering over the GS-14 gen 3 myself... I wish I could see them in person.
Thx TV-PressPass...good points....
I'm getting the inclination that a good used Gen 3 is one alternative to an expensive new Gen3...
...or even Thermal since ..in Canada...a new Gen3 with a good FOM is around 5500-6500 Cdn $ by the time the dust and Exchange rates settle..
I've been comparing Gen2+ with one thermal example and the Gen2 is pretty limited on dark nights ...needing IR or descent ambient light..
Cheers...NVGR
I'm getting the inclination that a good used Gen 3 is one alternative to an expensive new Gen3...
...or even Thermal since ..in Canada...a new Gen3 with a good FOM is around 5500-6500 Cdn $ by the time the dust and Exchange rates settle..
I've been comparing Gen2+ with one thermal example and the Gen2 is pretty limited on dark nights ...needing IR or descent ambient light..
Cheers...NVGR
