Nitro carburizing ever again???

saskcop

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I am not sure if that is the right term, but are we ever going to see someone offering the chroming treatment for our CZ858's again? It would be nice to be able to get our CZ858's done up as well as the CSA .223's.

Any word on this? What is the chance that it is ever going to happen? Is this a very involved process, or can someone else around the country be convinced to set up for this?
 
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I am not sure if that is the right term, but are we ever going to see someone offering the chroming treatment for our CZ858's again? It would be nice to be able to get our CZ858's done up as well as the CSA .223's.

Any word on this? What is the chance that it is ever going to happen? Is this a very involved process, or can someone else around the country be convinced to set up for this?
Its "nitrocarburizing":) I'm glad that my 858 was done with:D
Jocelyn
 
Theres a company in Edmonton that does NitroCarb, I had some hi performance diff gears for my Mustang done by them. should call them and see if they would do firearms parts. .. If they have no problem doing gun parts then the only thing is to sandblast the paint off before you send it to them. url]http://www.thermexmetal.com/home[/url]
 
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My understanding was that it turned out to not be a money making venture. I suppose that could be true. It may have been too arduous a task.
 
Here is an interesting read that I found when researching this a bit:

"Metal Treatments: Ferritic Nitrocarburizing/Melonite/Tenifer
In the last few posts, we looked into metal treatments like plating, parkerizing and bluing. In this post, we will study a newer form of metal treatment that has rapidly gained popularity in the firearms industry since the 80s. This metal treatment process is called Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, but there are several variants of this. The most popular variants are known by their trademarked names of Tenifer and Melonite and the main difference between these two are the chemicals used during the process. Both these trademarks, along with Tufftride, are owned by the same company, Degussa of Germany. The Degussa website explains that Tenifer and Tufftride are actually the same process and the only reason for the different names is because they couldn't get the trademark Tenifer registered in all countries and therefore use Tufftride in the countries where they couldn't get the name Tenifer registered.

To understand this method, we must first understand a few basic properties of iron and steel. Some materials, such as iron and steel, can exist with different crystalline structures. These different crystalline structures cause the same material to have different physical properties (e.g. different hardness, elasticity etc.). These different crystal structures are called "phases". Examples of such phases are: ferritic phase, austenitic phase, martensitic phase, ledeburite phase, pearlite phase etc. Both iron and steel can be switched from one phase to another by heating to different temperatures and adding other elements and cooling at different rates to change the crystalline structure of the product. The diagram below illustrates the temperatures and carbon content % that cause steel to change from one phase to another.

The basic concept behind the Ferritic Nitrocarburizing method is to introduce nitrogen and carbon to the steel when its crystal structure is still in the Ferritic phase. The temperature when this is done ranges from between 525-650 degrees centigrade. The first Ferritic Nitrocarburizing treatment process was invented by UK chemical giant, Imperial Chemical Laboratories (ICL), who came up with a process of dropping the workpiece in a sulfur salt bath at 550 degrees centigrade. This process was called Sulfinuz treatment because of the sulfur salt content. It was mainly used for cutting tools and high speed spindle parts, but it had problems with cleaning the solution off.

Degussa of Germany came up with a more environment friendly salt-bath process, which they called Tenifer in most of Europe and Tufftride in England and Asia. They later improved on this by inventing an ion nitriding process in the early 1980s. The ion nitriding process was faster and more precise to control. As far as the firearms industry is concerned though, the processes used for metal treatment use the salt-bath. Tenifer and Melonite use the same process, but slightly different chemicals and temperatures. Melonite treatment is known to be the simpler of the processes. The process starts by creating a salt bath of alkali cyanate in a steel vessel. The steel vessel has a pipe that creates bubbles and aerates the salt bath. The workpiece is introduced into the bath and the cyanate reacts with the workpiece to form an alkali carbonate. The bath is then treated with a regenerator chemical to convert the carbonate back to a cyanate. This causes two layers to form on the surface: the compound layer and the diffusion layer. The compound layer has iron, nitrogen and oxygen and is resistant to abrasion and wear. The diffusion layer has nitrides and carbides and provides extra hardness. The end result is a corrosion resistant finish that is extremely hard and corrosion resistant.

The Tenifer process was traditionally used in the German automotive industry for years, by manufacturers such as BMW and Mercedes. Glock GmBH, which was then an unknown Austrian manufacturer, was the first to use it in the firearms industry in the 1980s. All Glock pistols come with Tenifer treatment and it became well known to the firearms industry because of their success. It is now used by other manufacturers as well, such as Steyr, Walther, Heckler & Koch etc. It is renowned for its hardness and toughness. Tenifer has a dull-gray color and has a hardness of 69 HRC on the Rockwell scale, which is very hard, considering that diamond has a hardness of 70 HRC. Tenifer is also extremely corrosion resistant and is at least 85% more corrosion resistant that hard chrome plating and almost completely salt-water resistant as well. It also has excellent anti-friction properties. Glock generally applies a tenifer coat of 0.5 mm thickness to the slides and barrels of their pistols. The slides are further subject to parkerizing treatment on top of that. So, even if the parkerized finish were to wear off, the slide is still protected by the Tenifer layer.

Tenifer's properties have reached semi-legendary status. There are lots of videos and articles available on the Internet showing how hard and tough it is. People have subject their Glocks to ocean immersion for months and sharpened their knives with glocks, all without any effect on the finish!

While tenifer treatment is a very excellent process of metal treatment, it has one legal disadvantage -- it cannot be done in the United States, due to environmental laws regulating the use of certain cyanide salt chemicals and the amount of byproduct cyanide generated by the process allegedly exceed EPA limits. The original process as done in Europe uses 60% Sodium Cyanide and Cyanate and 40% Potassium Cyanide and Cyanate.

Hence, American companies such as Smith and Wesson or Springfield Arsenal use the Melonite treatment process instead, which is also a ferric nitrocarburizing process, but uses different salts and a slightly modified process to produce the same results. Melonite can be used on such steel grades as 416 stainless and 4140. However, it has the disadvantage of actually removing some of the properties of 416 stainless steel. The melonite process also produces a black finish instead of the gray color of Tenifer.

Ferritic Nitrocarburizing treatments produce some of the most corrosion resistant and hardest metal treatments in existence. After Glock pioneered their use in the industry, traditional firearms manufacturers are slowly beginning to adopt this technology to their products.[/I]"
 
If there is anywhere in Canada that can and will do it, please, let us draw the water from the well.
 
I had mine done and it is amazing.

From what I heard, all the prep work, disassembly, and BS from the processing house ended up making it more of a pain then it was worth. I think they lost money on it.
 
Interested. I love shiny things......

Edit. Would a shop that does traditional chrome and nickel plating be able to do this? Meaning, is it just as simple as chrome plating as you would an auto part?

Thanks.
 
In the USA, Coal Creek Armory is providing the service.
<http://coalcreekarmory.com/>
Isonite QPQ™

Coal Creek Armory is proud to offer the ultimate black "finish" for your steel firearms - Isonite QPQ™.

Isonite QPQ™ is a thermochemical process (ferritic nitrocarburizing) used for the case hardening of iron-based metals. In a molten bath of special salts, nitrogen, carbon, and small amounts of oxygen are diffused into the surface of the steel, creating a super-hard surface, called the "compound layer." Additionally, small amounts of carbon are pulled from within the substrate, toward the surface, creating a "diffusion zone," which exhibits a gradient of concentration of carbon and nitrogen, decreasing toward the core. Thus, the process provides both a hardening of the surface, and a gradient alloying of the substrate, which improves the ductility and overall strength of the material.

melonite01t.jpg

Springfield Mil Spec - Carbon Steel

Isonite QPQ™ can be used on both carbon steel and stainless steel. Melonized steel gun parts will be blue-black in color, and will exhibit surface hardness in the area of RC70, lower coefficient of friction/enhanced surface lubricity, superior running wear performance, superior sliding wear resistance, superior heat resistance, and superior corrosion resistance. The treatment penetrates to a depth of ~.004" to .008," with surface dimensional growth of only .0002" to .0004"(negligible), so post-treatment fitting is not a concern. Final appearance of the surface is dependent on the type of surface prep used, with surfaces tending to appear a bit smoother than before treatment. Thus, surfaces prepared via our preferred method of aluminum oxide blasting, which have a matte appearance, bear a smoother, yet non-reflective, satin post-treatment appearance. Polished surfaces tend to retain approximately the surface appearance they had prior to treatment. For those who love the look of a "tactical" black finish, Isonite QPQ™ is, without doubt, the best practical surface treatment available for firearms today.
melonite02t.jpg

Kimber TLEII - Stainless Steel

Isonite QPQ™ handgun treatment, including minor flaw removal* and matte/satin surface blasting $200

<http://coalcreekarmory.com/custom_finishing.html>
 
If there is anywhere in Canada that can and will do it, please, let us draw the water from the well.

x2!!! I think I can understand that the process that Armedsask mentioned would have been tedious and a pain, but, charge a few more bucks to cover the cost. Many would still pay.
 
I had the Rauch nitrocarb done, it was a steal at $120 and holds up extremely well, however I still don't know if I'd go it again considering the many months I was without my rifle and the cosmetic blemishes and fit issues it seems to have picked up.

If nitrocarb was available from the factory that would be the way to go IMO, maybe an importer should look into it?
 
I had the Rauch nitrocarb done, it was a steal at $120 and holds up extremely well, however I still don't know if I'd go it again considering the many months I was without my rifle and the cosmetic blemishes and fit issues it seems to have picked up.

If nitrocarb was available from the factory that would be the way to go IMO, maybe an importer should look into it?

Good luck with that. I am pretty sure that they don't want to narrow their profit margins.
 
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