No.4 sights

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1

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There is a thread in the general firearms discussion about the flip sight on the No.4 enfield. I gave him a technique to use when lining up the rear sight.

The trick i gave him was to focus on the front sight so the rear "hole" appears blurry, in the center of the blur there will be a pin prick of light that is the dead center, then you line up the dot of light with the front sight.

Some are telling me that this will not work and the eye will automatically find the center of the rear sight. But this is how my dad who has been shooting the enfield since he was 17 taught me. They say the rear "hole" should not be large enough to be able to see the blur. I think they are talking about a different style of sight.

Who is more right, I am sure I am but i need an opinion.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
There is a thread in the general firearms discussion about the flip sight on the No.4 enfield. I gave him a technique to use when lining up the rear sight.

The trick i gave him was to focus on the front sight so the rear "hole" appears blurry, in the center of the blur there will be a pin prick of light that is the dead center, then you line up the dot of light with the front sight.

Some are telling me that this will not work and the eye will automatically find the center of the rear sight. But this is how my dad who has been shooting the enfield since he was 17 taught me. They say the rear "hole" should not be large enough to be able to see the blur. I think they are talking about a different style of sight.

Who is more right, I am sure I am but I need an opinion.
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I don't know but was interesting. I guess whatever works. I personally have never looked for the blur but am going to look next time I shoot. I think that if your looking at the front sight thru the hole, centre is sort of automatic. I don't look for centre. Perhaps the centre will be brighter. Who taught your father to look for this.
 
My dad was taught to do this when he was in Army Cadets. Cadets is also where he was a shooting instructor. I actually just came back from shooting with my dad. I asked him about it and he said he was always told to look for that tiny clear spot in the center. some shooters might be able to find center automatically but he said the blurry method was what he always used and what he all ways taught.
 
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You look through the peep sight at the front and sit the bull on top of the front sight blade. Ignore the rear sight altogether. Your eye will centre itself. That how peep sights work.
 
sunray said:
You look through the peep sight at the front and sit the bull on top of the front sight blade. Ignore the rear sight altogether. Your eye will centre itself. That how peep sights work.
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Agree'd that's how they are intended to work. The blurr idea is likely a practical teaching passed down from one to another that could well be a very effective method, but it sounds like a training crutch (which makes sense). Where as with an open sight you have a definitive notch to align your post with the apparent openness of a peep may well be disconcerting for some, and this would give cadets and recruits something tangible to look for and relate too.

I would expect in the long run it would be somewhat less accurate as you would be concentrating on the blur, and the post and not the target (much more like the three points of the open sight), where as proper use of peep as I understand it (disclaimer) is that the shooter looks through the peep unconsciously and focuses one's eye on the target first, and the post second. But that again would be rather individual to each person.

Theory doesn't always work for everyone or in every situation, so it makes sense a creative adaptable person would find a method that works for them, and pass that teaching on. I do much the same teaching apprentices tips and tricks of my trade. Thanks for the tip I'll give it a try myself, after all I could be one of the guys it works better for too. Kudos to your dad for passing stuff like this on, and thanks for passing it on yourself. Sure it may not be for everyone, but having more tools in your bag is never a bad thing.
 
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I have always used the method that you described. It`s like a little shadow around the rim of the aperture and then the dot in the middle becomes clear when you sight. A buddy taught me this, I`ll have to ask him where he learned it.
 
if you have your eye positioned the correct distance from the rear site, the dot becomes much easyer to see. if you are to close or to far, it will be bigger. the idea is also to have the dot as small as possible
an old vet taught me that one, and once you get onto it, its slick
 
No4 sights

Well, for those of you that have shot competition or long range with post front sight, all that has bee said do make sense but when in final squeeze the focus must be transferred to front sight...... not target or you will do "bull-gazing":)

excerpt from HighPower primer :

"" Another trick is to use some part of the front sight or rifle barrel to align with the rear sight aperture at it's 6-o’clock edge. That is, get a proper alignment with the top surface of the front sight as near centered in the aperture as you can, then see where the lower edge of the aperture "cuts off" the view of the front sight or top of the barrel. Memorize this relationship and make sure it looks exactly the same for every shot. And before you fire, don't forget to transfer focus to the front sight.



This is the main thing: Watch the Front Sight! Keep your focus there, not on the bullseye. There is a tendency among untrained shooters to watch the target ("bull-gazing"). This will cause your shots to wander. Let the target blur slightly and keep your front sight sharp! If your shots are wandering high-low-right-left without any cause you can detect (no wind changes, your hold looked good, etc.), you might be bull-gazing. This also may be the case if your shots seem to form two distinct groups (especially in rapid-fire). One group is formed when properly focusing on your sight, the other from improperly focusing on the bull. Also, this two-group effect is often the result of not replacing the butt in your shoulder in the same position after you reload.



The reason you focus on the front sight is that if the target is blurry, the possible aim error from trying to hold the tip of the front sight against the blurry edge of the target will only be as big as the blurred edge appears – a quite small distance actually. But, if the front sight is blurry, you will not notice small misalignments of the sight, which, due to the geometry differences between where your eye is looking and where the sight/barrel is looking, translate into enormous errors at the target.""

All in all it is the same as pistol shooting:

Concentrate on front sight..... and shoot better.

YMMV


BB
 
I've never really paid to much attention to it myself, but just aimed as it felt natural. Next time I go shooting a No4 I'll pay more attention and try to see what you're talking about. If it works for you then all the power to you, never mind what others do! ;)
 
BoomBoom,thats the way i was taught,just before firing transfer focus to the front sight,and "most" shooting team Rangers use the six oclock hold at all ranges,ie bottem of the four foot screen at 500 meters or a distinct spot on the target.Once sight settings are found at each of the 100-600m ranges,they are entered in the shooting book along with other data.When sighters are fired,then it is just a click or two for adjustment.Once the cheekweld and hold is developed centering of rear sight is automatic,but is still checked (along with many other things) before firing.
 
The light patch in the center is exactly how my dad taught me, in about 1950.

If the rear aperture is made very small, the depth of field improves so the target is less out of focus. You have to focus on the front sight.

After about age 40, this can become difficult.
 
I simply use the Force because I'm a Jedi Knight.

Sorry guys it's been a long day. Thanks for all the tips in this thread, good useful info for me!
 
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