I bought a NO4 Mk1 recently. Only because the price was right and it has an odd but neat looking scope mounted on it. (Spiked my curiosity) I know very little about these old longbranches. Right after the NO4 Mk1 it is stamped with a star looking mark followed by T and I was wondering what that means. The scope appears to be made of brass and has all kinds of numbers on it and is quite clear to look through with a post type view. Is this original or some kind of add on? Someone has tried to sporterize the gun. If I were to attempt a rebuild, I was wondering if there are any input out there on how I should tackle this project. It will have to be rebarreled due to it being shortened. Will a different barrel devalue the rifle? The stock will need to be replaced as well. Am I nuts considering restoration or should I just part it out? Any input would be appreciated. Like I said, I know very little about these old 303s.
NO4 MK1 longbranch 1945 questions
- Thread starter Royzo
- Start date
well T is the official designation for snipers but to my limited knowledge there never were any non-british rifles selected for T snipers. I would be very leery of it. MK1* just means it's a special kind of MK1 made only in longbranch in canada and Savage in US.
There were both Savage and Long Branch rifles picked by the British to be T designated rifles. Canada, even produced a couple of her own versions in Long Branch.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I went to meet Royzo and had a look at the rifle in question today, so here is a general description for those of you on the edge of your seats waiting for photos.
It is a 90L8### LongBranch sniiper which has unfortunately been bubba'd. Below are the good, the bad, and the ugly:
The good: It is a matching rifle with REL scope. The rifle number matches the Cdn scope mount, and the bolt matches the rifle number. The REL mk3 scope serial matches the number stamped on the Cdn butt.
The scope is nice and clear, and the turrets both move with corresponding movement of the reticle.
The trigger guard is Savage marked, as well as C/l\. Quite typical for this era of LB production.
All in all, the rifle does not show a lot of use. The pads are not staked, and the bolt still has a lot of it's bluing.
The bad: Barrel was cut to just before the middle band, wood cut as well. Cheek pad is also gone.
The ugly: The rear sight is missing and was removed with a hacksaw, rather than simply removing the pin. The hacksaw removed some of the metal on the inner sight ear.
As well, the rear scope bracket screw is missing and has been replaced with an allen screw of unknown thread pitch. Also, the king swivel was removed and replaced with a 1/4 North American thread bolt of unknown pitch.
Lastly there is some minor bubbling of corrosion towards the back of the telescope. I suggested it be merely oiled for now, rather than taking any irreversible steps to remove it.
I should have brought along my camera as Royzo's is toast and he is also in an area that does not have fast internet.
All in all a very nice piece. Other than the cutting on the sight ear, and the unknowns of some of the threaded holes, it shows a lot of promise.
It is a 90L8### LongBranch sniiper which has unfortunately been bubba'd. Below are the good, the bad, and the ugly:
The good: It is a matching rifle with REL scope. The rifle number matches the Cdn scope mount, and the bolt matches the rifle number. The REL mk3 scope serial matches the number stamped on the Cdn butt.
The scope is nice and clear, and the turrets both move with corresponding movement of the reticle.
The trigger guard is Savage marked, as well as C/l\. Quite typical for this era of LB production.
All in all, the rifle does not show a lot of use. The pads are not staked, and the bolt still has a lot of it's bluing.
The bad: Barrel was cut to just before the middle band, wood cut as well. Cheek pad is also gone.
The ugly: The rear sight is missing and was removed with a hacksaw, rather than simply removing the pin. The hacksaw removed some of the metal on the inner sight ear.
As well, the rear scope bracket screw is missing and has been replaced with an allen screw of unknown thread pitch. Also, the king swivel was removed and replaced with a 1/4 North American thread bolt of unknown pitch.
Lastly there is some minor bubbling of corrosion towards the back of the telescope. I suggested it be merely oiled for now, rather than taking any irreversible steps to remove it.
I should have brought along my camera as Royzo's is toast and he is also in an area that does not have fast internet.
All in all a very nice piece. Other than the cutting on the sight ear, and the unknowns of some of the threaded holes, it shows a lot of promise.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Congrats and welcome Royzo to the club!
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Well a deal was struck, and the rifle is now here.
It never even left the dining room before I took around 45 photos, and grabbed some tools to fully assess the damage. A couple of trips down to the gunroom to grab parts has shown that the two holes I was concerned with are OK as they are. In both cases UNF bolts were installed in place of the BSF. The British Standard Fine is 26 threads per inch, where the Unified National Fine is 28 threads per inch. Thankfully, between the closeness of the pitch and the relative hardness of the receiver compared to the hardness of the bolts, the receiver did not show any appreciable damage to these threads.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the rear sight ear. Once the scope was off, it didn't look as bad as I first thought, but the area will need to be built up. Most likely, the fellow who did this did it so the bolt could be removed without removing the telescope, which was now held on with one allen key on top of the regular thumb screw. I guess the "gunsmith" did not figure out how to remove the little pin that would allow the sight axis pin to be removed, and instead hacksawed the right side of the sight, and twisted off the sight assembly. The ends of the axis pin are still in the rifle.
Below are some of the shots of the slight bubbling of corrosion on the rear of the telescope.
OK, so thats the ugly. But on the good side, it is a matched scope and receiver, has seen very little use (bolt is still mostly black) and even still had grease in the trigger mech and around the inner knox. I am working a deal now on a 45 LB that hopefully wil have a nice 5 groove 45 dated barrel to replace the one that is presently on the rifle. She will be in her former glory soon enough.
Things I would like to find as well are a Savage C/l\ marked milled rear sight, a Canadian thumbscrew, and a Canadian cheek pad. Even better would be a time machine so I could go to the garage when the fellow was "upgrading" this rifle.
It never even left the dining room before I took around 45 photos, and grabbed some tools to fully assess the damage. A couple of trips down to the gunroom to grab parts has shown that the two holes I was concerned with are OK as they are. In both cases UNF bolts were installed in place of the BSF. The British Standard Fine is 26 threads per inch, where the Unified National Fine is 28 threads per inch. Thankfully, between the closeness of the pitch and the relative hardness of the receiver compared to the hardness of the bolts, the receiver did not show any appreciable damage to these threads.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the rear sight ear. Once the scope was off, it didn't look as bad as I first thought, but the area will need to be built up. Most likely, the fellow who did this did it so the bolt could be removed without removing the telescope, which was now held on with one allen key on top of the regular thumb screw. I guess the "gunsmith" did not figure out how to remove the little pin that would allow the sight axis pin to be removed, and instead hacksawed the right side of the sight, and twisted off the sight assembly. The ends of the axis pin are still in the rifle.
Below are some of the shots of the slight bubbling of corrosion on the rear of the telescope.
OK, so thats the ugly. But on the good side, it is a matched scope and receiver, has seen very little use (bolt is still mostly black) and even still had grease in the trigger mech and around the inner knox. I am working a deal now on a 45 LB that hopefully wil have a nice 5 groove 45 dated barrel to replace the one that is presently on the rifle. She will be in her former glory soon enough.
Things I would like to find as well are a Savage C/l\ marked milled rear sight, a Canadian thumbscrew, and a Canadian cheek pad. Even better would be a time machine so I could go to the garage when the fellow was "upgrading" this rifle.
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
^with a big ugly club in hand no less. I'm sure it will look like brand new when you are done with it Stencollector. Nice score!
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stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Well that was the ugly. Now here is some of the good, to balance it all out.
As I mentioned before, a matched set. Nice clear markings, exactly as should be expected.
A few shots of some of the Maltese cross. On another forum years past, someone asked why the Maltese cross, a symbol which represents the German army. ? Someone else's reply was "for putting round holes in square heads". Kind of dark humour, but that line has stuck with me over the years.
These can be found on various pieces of the LB snipers, and are said to denote non-standard parts. Here they are on the scope mount and the front scope pad:
For some reason the caps seem to have both been reversed on the scope. Also, both appear to be stamped with the number 1, which is unusual. Normally the front and rear rings were stamped with a different number, but with Enfields you never say never.
The scope itself is crystal clear, and the turrets move nicely. Markings are exactly as they should be on a REL mk3 scope.
The butt is in beautiful shape, with the scope number on the wood, and the buttplate still show about 80% or better of it's original finish.
The portion of the receiver that was covered by the wood is still packed in grease. I doubt the previous "gunsmith" did this.
Well, off to start the wood furnace in the workshop. I have to remove the front pad in order to get the action wrench onto it and remove that barrel. I have done this before, but even so, wish me luck.
As I mentioned before, a matched set. Nice clear markings, exactly as should be expected.
A few shots of some of the Maltese cross. On another forum years past, someone asked why the Maltese cross, a symbol which represents the German army. ? Someone else's reply was "for putting round holes in square heads". Kind of dark humour, but that line has stuck with me over the years.
These can be found on various pieces of the LB snipers, and are said to denote non-standard parts. Here they are on the scope mount and the front scope pad:
For some reason the caps seem to have both been reversed on the scope. Also, both appear to be stamped with the number 1, which is unusual. Normally the front and rear rings were stamped with a different number, but with Enfields you never say never.
The scope itself is crystal clear, and the turrets move nicely. Markings are exactly as they should be on a REL mk3 scope.
The butt is in beautiful shape, with the scope number on the wood, and the buttplate still show about 80% or better of it's original finish.
The portion of the receiver that was covered by the wood is still packed in grease. I doubt the previous "gunsmith" did this.
Well, off to start the wood furnace in the workshop. I have to remove the front pad in order to get the action wrench onto it and remove that barrel. I have done this before, but even so, wish me luck.
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stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Pad came off without issue, the barrel came off (tight) with no unexpected problems, and the front thumbscrew is out for copying. I removed the old pin remnants from the rear sight and cleaned up the area/holes. Installed a (temporary) rear sight until a proper one comes up.
She will be back to her former glory soon enough.
She will be back to her former glory soon enough.
Parker-Hale Mike
CGN Regular
- Location
- Beautiful Victoria
Yeah, Me! I'm dying here..............
- Location
- Manitoulin Island
Glad you can save it! That "backyard machinist" needs attention from a really enthusiastic dominatrix!
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stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Well today was the day. I had to do some work on my barrel vise as it wasn't grabbing like it should. With the assistance of my 40 ton press, the barrel was held solid, and removed like a dream from the donor 45 LB. The "new" barrel was cleaned up a bit, and then installed onto the T receiver. A bit of heat and some tension on the screws and the front pad was resoldered to the receiver.
Back to the kitchen table, and the selected LB wood was installed, along with new buttplate and screws, barrel bands, front sight guard, and new target swivel. The wood bedded to spec, but I'll have to check the headspace tomorrow. I had a friend turn a new thumbscrew for the scope bracket, and it has been blued. It looks the part. I even found one of the thackery washers for the thumbscrew hiding in the parts bins. I thought I had one hiding somewhere.
There was some slight corrosion on the end of the scope. I was able to clean that up with a but of very very fine emery, followed by a bit of bluing. There is some pitting left, but I can live with it.
I have a Brit cheekrest on it temporarily, but they are not identical to the Cdn cheekrest, so I'll likely have one custom made until an original shows up. I have a Cdn chest out in the shed which I'll bring in for this rifle. I knew I was keeping that crate for a reason.
Here are a couple shots, but due to the low light in the dining room, they come out pretty orange. I'll try and get some better ones in the next day or two. It's kind of nice being back in the LB sniper club, and at a semi reasonable price. Still some tweaking to do on it yet, but at least it is starting to look the part.
Back to the kitchen table, and the selected LB wood was installed, along with new buttplate and screws, barrel bands, front sight guard, and new target swivel. The wood bedded to spec, but I'll have to check the headspace tomorrow. I had a friend turn a new thumbscrew for the scope bracket, and it has been blued. It looks the part. I even found one of the thackery washers for the thumbscrew hiding in the parts bins. I thought I had one hiding somewhere.
There was some slight corrosion on the end of the scope. I was able to clean that up with a but of very very fine emery, followed by a bit of bluing. There is some pitting left, but I can live with it.
I have a Brit cheekrest on it temporarily, but they are not identical to the Cdn cheekrest, so I'll likely have one custom made until an original shows up. I have a Cdn chest out in the shed which I'll bring in for this rifle. I knew I was keeping that crate for a reason.
Here are a couple shots, but due to the low light in the dining room, they come out pretty orange. I'll try and get some better ones in the next day or two. It's kind of nice being back in the LB sniper club, and at a semi reasonable price. Still some tweaking to do on it yet, but at least it is starting to look the part.
