NO4 MK1 T question

Royzo

Royzo

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Still learning about these old girls. Where the NO4 MK1 *T the only T snipers or where they also available in other NO MK versions?
 
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Royzo said:
Still learning about these old girls. Where the NO4 MK1 *T the only T snipers or where they also available in other NO MK versions?
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The "T" designates "telescoped"

There were telescoped SMLE MkIII rifles during WWI
Using about a dozen scope and mount variations.

There were Ross MkIII snipers with about 4 scope and mount variations.

There were Pattern 1914 snipers in 2 variations during WWI and 2 during WW2, both using recycled WWI scopes.

The Australians built 2 variations of rings smle snipers during wwI.

During WW2 the Brits built No4 snipers with one type of mount and 4Mks of No32 scope.
Canada built No4 snipers with 3 mount variations and 3 types of scope, totalling 6 scope variations including 2 totally unique scopes.
 
I see I have a pile more to learn. So ww2 all where NO4s and the MK could vary? What are they talking about sniper, how do you determine if its a sniper?
 
The No.4 rifle was built in two marks during the war, No.4 Mk.1 and No.4 Mk1*. Rifles of either mark noticed to be above average in accuracy during test firing would be set aside as candidates for sniper rifles, worked on to further improve the accuracy (bedding, trigger) and fitted with scope mounts and scopes and given the "T" designation.

The other marks of No.4 were post WWII, when the way the trigger assembly was attached to the rifle was modified. This new variation was designated No.4 Mk.2, and when any Mk.1 or Mk.1* was modified during an FTR (rebuilt at arsenal) to have the new trigger mounting the Mk.1s were restamped Mk.1/2 and the Mk.1*s were restamped Mk. 1/3.

I think there were enough sniper rifles left from the war that they never had to make any out of No.4 Mk.2s and if a T ever needed FTR treatment they probably wouldn't have changed the trigger so it wouldn't have become a /2 or /3.
 
Some of the Indian refurbs ended up /2s. Also supposedly Long Branch set aside serial blocks for snipers and did the machine work for the conversion before the rifles were completed to simplify the process. I did a conversion on a Long Branch sporter a while ago and I believe this is true because the area the rear pad sits on is brutally hardened steel that is exceptionally tough drilling and tapping.
 
Very helpful info. I am looking into a NO4 MK1*T 1945 longbranch and just trying to be sure that I am not getting sucked into a clone. Any ideas of what else that I should watch out for?
 
Royzo said:
Very helpful info. I am looking into a NO4 MK1*T 1945 longbranch and just trying to be sure that I am not getting sucked into a clone.
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Be very very careful ... ;)

There's a couple of guys who are on various Canadian web sites, as well as gun show dealers, who are assembling "Heinz 57" (for lack of a better expression) regular Enfields and Enfield sniper variants. They burnt me early on in my collecting experience ... :(

If you aren't absolutely familiar and comfortable in assessing these, don't jump in and lose your hard earned money.

Handle the piece and check every marking against the 160 pic photo montage in the MKL. Get an experienced buddy to help you...

Also check it's serial number against the one in the MKL, to see how many numbers it's off, so you have some idea of where it would have been in the production run. My wife has many in her collection, with two 1945 LB snipers being just 18 serial numbers apart...

Regards,
Doug
 
Sorry. I was refering to Brit #4Trifles. I don't have a LB #4T.

I have wondered why select Brit rifles were marked TR. Telescope Rifle, maybe? Or Target Rifle? The marking appears to be applied by the original manufacturer, not by H&H.
 
I wish some of you guys where a little closer to my location. Info shared over a cup of coffee is so much easier. I hate typing. Thank you for your input. I am sure that I will probably have more questions as I learn more about these old girls. The CGN and its many members have been awesome.
 
Royzo said:
I wish some of you guys where a little closer to my location. Info shared over a cup of coffee is so much easier. I hate typing. Thank you for your input. I am sure that I will probably have more questions as I learn more about these old girls. The CGN and its many members have been awesome.
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I think "smellie" and "stencollector", both of whom are members of our Advisory Panel live out your way?

Regards,
Doug
 
BadgerDog said:
I think "smellie" and "stencollector", both of whom are members of our Advisory Panel live out your way?

Regards,
Doug
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Yep, they do!! There's lots of us Milsurp guys here in good ol' Manitoba!! Maybe in the next little while we should meet for a coffee and yak guns?

Royzo, perhaps you should come to our now annual "Virden meet and greet" at the wolverine range. Smellie, Buffdog, Twosteam, Kjohn, Mrwolverine, Stencolector and many others were there! We even brought toys for others to play with!!

As for checking out a high end Milsurp on the spot? It can be very hard to authenticate a rifle without several hours of research and comparison between the rifle in question and picture of one known to be authentic.

As mentioned previously, there's almost more fakes it seems floating around then authentic pieces so it's buyer beware when dealing with higher end collectors pieces.

Do your research, keep photographs and know exactly what to look for so that when the time does come to slap your cash down on the table you'll be excited instead of second guessing yourself!!
 
The way I understood it the TR markings were applied to rifles selected from accuracy tests as being suitable for telescopic rifle conversion. Then they were sent to H&H to be converted. Once they had a telescope mated to them they were given the receiver side T marking. To me this explains why there would be no TR on a Long Branch T, kind of tough to select unfinished rifles from accuracy testing because they aren't complete. So when they were done being built as Ts they got the receiver side T but no need for the TR.
 
You will have to let me know when this meet and greet is on. Was unaware of it. Would like to check it out. I am in Virden occasionally visiting a couple of my kids that live there so one more excuse to go will not hurt.
 
I have the great pleasure of knowing Royzo and have seen this rifle. It appears to be correct in all aspects, although sadly bubba'd. The serial no#s on the wrist, scope mount and bolt all match and are 90l80xx, dated 1945. The scope is marked REL 1945-c62. Serial # COS2039a. I know pics would help and i have them except I have no Photobucket account and can't seem to send them anywhere from my smart phone. It is the saddest thing i've seen in a long time that someone many many years ago seemed to think that it would make a fine deer hunting rifle..........
 
The barrel was cut along with the fore stock. I have opted out of the rebuild and stencollector is buying the rifle from me. I want to see the old girl done right and sounds to me he is able to do it.
 
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