No4 Mk1 T range report.

Reflex_84

Reflex_84

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Hey guys.

So a big thanks to everyone who responded to my posts and questions the other week about the (T). I did wind up buying it.

I had it out at my cousin's farm today to shoot it. I didn't know what to expect, but I expected better than I got. I couldn't even get it on paper at 50 yards. It is shooting high and to the left. Way outside the adjustment of fhe scope. I can see the post in the scope moving side to side and up and down when I move the turrets.

What gives? Where do I start? It was mounted in a lead sled. So I know I am not jerking the rifle to the side when shooting.

Do you guys have any advise? Is there a link you can provide on the proper way to sight it in? Heck, I don't even know if it is the scope or the rifle being difficult here.

Thanks.

Ps. Other than that, I had a blast shooting it. It was very comfortable to shoot. Cant wait to do it again.
 
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The Army used to have a 2-shot method of setting up the scope.

Screw everything down solid, then set up a target.

Take careful aim at the target and fire ONE round only.

NOW remove the scope-adjustment caps.

Block the rifle firmly in place, aim VERY carefully exactly where you aimed previously..... and direct a friend to move the cross-hairs over top of your first bullet-hole. Do NOT allow the rifle to move while this adjustment is being made.

Your Barrel and your Scope now should be looking in the same place.

Hope this helps.
 
That would work except I have no more upwards travel left with the turret.

I heard of a gentleman here who works on the No.32 mk3 scopes. What is his name? Maybe I will get in touch with him too.

Or maybe try to shoot it without the scope mouned and use the irons. See where it goes?
 
Send the rifle and scope to Wheaty. He will collimate the scope on the brackets, on a jig he has at home.

He did one for me a few years ago and it was almost dead on, when I mounted the brackets back on the rifle. In your case, there may be a bit more work to be done.

Get in touch with him. He is a member here but may be in the Southern US right now. He usually checks out his PMs though.
 
I also had scope adjustment problems with my no4 mk1 high and to the left, I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the scope, then I went back to the iron-sights. As it turned out, the gun smith I took it to showed me that my barrel has had about 15,000 rds through it. He said that I could expect accuracy problems if I didn't want to change my barrel.
So check your barrel out. Here is a link for a quick check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsNCqqWgZZA
 
Go to the top of this forum where the stickies are, at Lee Enfield On-line Knowledge Libraries (Index of Articles) You will find manuals and information on the No.4 and its bedding, and information on the scope.

At the Milsurps Enfield forum the senior British armourer Peter Laidler and author of "The .303" No4(T) Rifle; An Armourers Perspective" and he will answer your questions and give whatever help he can.

There you have it, the forum and the expert armourer to fix your problems. Tell Mr. Laidler Ed sent you and he owes me for the "dry as a popcorn fart" joke he uses in British pubs.
 
I built a repro a few months ago using Cpt. Peter Laidler's articles. Mount the rifle solidly to something pointing at an object a couple hundred yards away. Pull the bolt out and see what object the bore is pointed at then look through the scope and see where it is. The axis of the rifle bore and centre of the scope tube have to be collimated perfectly to each other so that your scope is in the centre of its adjustment. This is done when the pads are fitted to the rifle, thus all of the marking of matching numbers on the rifle, scope, and mount. If I remember right your rifle and scope numbers are not matching and that is why things are not working as they should, your rifle needs a trip to a qualified armorer. Wheaty is your man on this side of the pond. Be patient and do it right and it will reward you.

Laidler's articles on 'making up a useful No4 sniper' are in the above mentioned knowledge library. Now the good news is that this is definitely fixable, and will be as it should be after it is collimated properly.
 
One of the simplest "tricks".....is to see if the scope is parallel with the barrel.


I usually use a long wooden dowel to "test" if they are pointing in the same direction.


Are windage-adjustable rings wholly out of the question for the OP?
 
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You'll get lots of advice on this. I would no send the scope or bracket to anybody with out checking the following. 1) Barrel crown 2) barrel condition ...this needs to be done with a bore scope and set of guages...might look good..the barrel has most likely seen a lot of use 3) chamber..cast and measure 4) bolt face...is there any sign of a primer mark? pitting? 5) headspace 6) bearing or bedding of the forend....there is some great info on this site if you do a search 7) ammo...what were you using? try to get a load similar to the sniper round 8) shoot with iron sights from a rest over a couple distances ..100/300 yds. As you progress through this analysis the "T" performance will become evident. should it measure up to these parameters then check the bracket. You can remove the no32 scope and replace with a commerical 1" tube fixed power scope ( a fixed 4x works great). If Ok it's in the scope and there's not a lot that can be done as these were collimator from the bracket/pads on the rifle.

Those posting here have given you some good advice.....If you approach it in the manner i've suggested it will same you time, money and frustration.
 
I completely agree Rgg7, I had one that was very similar, turns out someone had taken the scope apart at some point and did not put it back together properly. The internals were not installed properly therefore not giving me enough adjustment on the knobs...I would only send the scope out to someone as a LAST resort....my 2 cents.



rgg_7 said:
You'll get lots of advice on this. I would no send the scope or bracket to anybody with out checking the following. 1) Barrel crown 2) barrel condition ...this needs to be done with a bore scope and set of guages...might look good..the barrel has most likely seen a lot of use 3) chamber..cast and measure 4) bolt face...is there any sign of a primer mark? pitting? 5) headspace 6) bearing or bedding of the forend....there is some great info on this site if you do a search 7) ammo...what were you using? try to get a load similar to the sniper round 8) shoot with iron sights from a rest over a couple distances ..100/300 yds. As you progress through this analysis the "T" performance will become evident. should it measure up to these parameters then check the bracket. You can remove the no32 scope and replace with a commerical 1" tube fixed power scope ( a fixed 4x works great). If Ok it's in the scope and there's not a lot that can be done as these were collimator from the bracket/pads on the rifle.

Those posting here have given you some good advice.....If you approach it in the manner i've suggested it will same you time, money and frustration.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks a lot guys. I will take another peak when I get home later today. I was already thinking of sending the scope to Wheaty to have him go over it. The turrets move free but get a little tight at the end of their turns.

Rgg_7 I will have a look at the crown, barrel and bolt face. Beyond that I don't have the time or resources at hand to go any further. I would have to send it out to have it looked at. Oh ya. The ammo used was 180 gr Remington core loct
 
Do you save your target(s), accurately record shooting distance, slope of the land, weather conditions especially wind speed and direction. If it's consistently grouping that will steer you in right direction. Ron
 
Reflex_84 said:
The ammo used was 180 gr Remington core loct
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I would try some Prvi Partizan 174 grain fmj ammo, the Remington ammo is loaded to lower pressures than military ammo. The shape of the bullet and the lower pressures it is loaded to could cause your POI problems.

In Mr. Laidlers book it also states the following:
"Any No.4 Enfield rifle sent to Holland and Holland for conversion to a No.4 (T) that did not have the required 3 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip was sent back to their owning organizations".

Meaning if the rifle wasn't properly bedded Holland and Holland refused to touch the rifle.
 
rgg_7 said:
Do you save your target(s), accurately record shooting distance, slope of the land, weather conditions especially wind speed and direction. If it's consistently grouping that will steer you in right direction. Ron
Click to expand...


I couldn't get it on paper. Yesterday was calm, but hot. flat farmers field.





I also checked the bore, it is nice and crisp, no pitting, the crown looks ok. I can post a pic later, and the bolt face seems nice and smooth. no abnormal markings or primer hits.

How do you check for proper bedding?
 
Reflex_84 said:
How do you check for proper bedding?
Click to expand...

By reading the manuals I pointed out in my other post, 95% of the Enfield books and manuals at this site Badger got from me Ed Horton as you can see from the down load pages.

1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (Complete Set)
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=335-1991-No.4-%28All-Marks%29-.303-Rifle-Manuals-%28Complete-Set%29

At one time I had the largest Enfield manual stickys anywhere on the internet after 10 years of collecting books and manuals and these downloads were "FREE". But the greedy Canadian Steve Redgwell at http://www.303british.com/ wanted to make money selling his Enfield information so he wrote to these Enfield forums and said I was breaking copyright laws and my stickys were shut down. As you can see at Badgers Milsurps Enfield website he has these very same manuals for download, they are "NOT" copyright protected and NEVER were. Its also amazing what people will do for money or to increase the traffic at their websites and screw people to do while sucking my sticky dry of information.

Have a nice day, Steve and Badger your a matched pair.
 
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