Norinco M14 M-305B: Rear sight issues

[CanadianReich]

I am SURE this is posted somewhere i just cant FIND it.

I see lots of folk replacing their rear sights with after market ones ergo I assume there is something fishy with the ones that come standard on this gun.


I am new to this gun and its rear sights so have nothing to compare it to- ie im not 100% sure the problem is the gun it could simply be my ignorance. Let me know.

Problem:

I am attempting to "zero" my gun in. Ive done lots of research on this and have it all printed out and stuffed into my ammo bag for reading at the bench when im trying to get the gun zeroed. Elevation seems to work FINE. Windage is my problem. From memory it was 72 clicks and 16 either side of zero for windage , and this is true, I confirmed that much.

The left knob, the elevation, rotates with ease likly as it should. The windage does NOT rotate with ease- sometimes it rotates other times it wont move a at all, in either direction. When it does rotate it not only adjusts the windage but it often moves the elevation up or down with it (!).

When moving the windage to the left I also find that it starts to unscrew itself becoming "loose". Turning it right tightens it back up. My temporary solution for this was to crank the thing hard left, tighten it up by screw driver, then move it 16 clicks to the right until it was in the dead middle- where I needed it to try to "zero" the gun.

My plan is to never ever ever ever bother touching the windage again and simply adjust the front sight for this.

Is this normal? I'd assume the windage should work as easily as the elevation, rotate freely without loosening things and always with noticeable "clicks". Sadly for me this is not the case- that windage side of the rear sights has some issues.


thoughts?

more info" Marstar's last shipment of these guns is the one I got, black synthetic stock, long (not shorty), came with a $75 SKS......
this one
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-305.shtm

adding a video

[youtube]wx0m1sUxx1Y[/youtube]

 

[svt1940]

I am SURE this is posted somewhere i just cant FIND it.

I see lots of folk replacing their rear sights with after market ones ergo I assume there is something fishy with the ones that come standard on this gun.


I am new to this gun and its rear sights so have nothing to compare it to- ie im not 100% sure the problem is the gun it could simply be my ignorance. Let me know.

Problem:

I am attempting to "zero" my gun in. Ive done lots of research on this and have it all printed out and stuffed into my ammo bag for reading at the bench when im trying to get the gun zeroed. Elevation seems to work FINE. Windage is my problem. From memory it was 72 clicks and 16 either side of zero for windage , and this is true, I confirmed that much.

The left knob, the elevation, rotates with ease likly as it should. The windage does NOT rotate with ease- sometimes it rotates other times it wont move a at all, in either direction. When it does rotate it not only adjusts the windage but it often moves the elevation up or down with it (!).

When moving the windage to the left I also find that it starts to unscrew itself becoming "loose". Turning it right tightens it back up. My temporary solution for this was to crank the thing hard left, tighten it up by screw driver, then move it 16 clicks to the right until it was in the dead middle- where I needed it to try to "zero" the gun.

My plan is to never ever ever ever bother touching the windage again and simply adjust the front sight for this.

Is this normal? I'd assume the windage should work as easily as the elevation, rotate freely without loosening things and always with noticeable "clicks". Sadly for me this is not the case- that windage side of the rear sights has some issues.


thoughts?

more info" Marstar's last shipment of these guns is the one I got, black synthetic stock, long (not shorty), came with a $75 SKS......
this one
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/M-305.shtm

I have this issu with my M 305. My sight was loose so i tried to tighten the screw on the windage knob and the sight would not move after.... Upon disassembly, i found that the sight pinion was bent and the threads were stripped. The rifle was new, Marstar send me a replacement sight but in the mean time, i bought a Garand sight on Ebay, NOS Beretta Garand sight, sight is perfect now, elevetion and windage work like they should. I didnt fired the rifle yet, i hope soon. The chinese sight are hit or miss, somes work others dont. Normally, the screw on the windage knob shouldn't unscrew by itself but chinese sight are kinda crappy. I suggest you disassemble your sight and inspect for bend shaf or dammaged threads. If your sight is dammaged, Marstar will send you a replacement but if you want peace of mind, a Garand sight is the way to go or you can only buy the shaft assembly and put it on your.
Jocelyn

 

[dogzilla]

Most people replace their rear sights with a set from a garand. There was an Italian guy who used to sell them, someone on this site probably has his e mail. If not, try e bay, or the EE.

 

[chalkriver]

That was Andy in Italy who sold them ...I heard he is sold out .
IIRC Hungry had replacement elev and windage pinions for sale .
Brownells sells them as well.

 

[rethius]

I think M14Doctor has some rear sights.

 

[Runt]

Sounds like mine. Replaced it with a USGI unit from a fellow CGN member Spcamno . Was a great rear sight and Spcamno was great to deal with.

 

[the judge]

Are the USGI M14 or Garand rear sight holes any larger than the factory Norc? They are a damn tiny hole to look through when trying to pick up that front sight quickly.

 

[gnmontey]

That was Andy in Italy who sold them ...I heard he is sold out .

Mine came from a guy in Greece via Ebay. Metric calibrations. The envelope it arrived in was covered in stamps. Arrived sooner than ordering from the US

M

 

[BattleRife]

I see lots of folk replacing their rear sights with after market ones ergo I assume there is something fishy with the ones that come standard on this gun.

They often don't work like they should, as you can see. Most of the time it can be fixed by completely disassembling, cleaning, properly reassembling, and lubricating the sight. Mine has been good for over 1000 rounds now; both knobs move easily in two directions with audible and tactile clicks. I personally don't like the idea of using M1 sights. M1's were calibrated in yards, for .30-06 ball ammo, M14's were calibrated in meters, for 7.62mm ammo. They won't be the same. It also offends my puritanistic nature.

 

[CanadianReich]

I have this issu with my M 305. My sight was loose so i tried to tighten the screw on the windage knob and the sight would not move after.... Upon disassembly, i found that the sight pinion was bent and the threads were stripped. The rifle was new, Marstar send me a replacement sight but in the mean time, i bought a Garand sight on Ebay, NOS Beretta Garand sight, sight is perfect now, elevetion and windage work like they should. I didnt fired the rifle yet, i hope soon. The chinese sight are hit or miss, somes work others dont. Normally, the screw on the windage knob shouldn't unscrew by itself but chinese sight are kinda crappy. I suggest you disassemble your sight and inspect for bend shaf or dammaged threads. If your sight is dammaged, Marstar will send you a replacement but if you want peace of mind, a Garand sight is the way to go or you can only buy the shaft assembly and put it on your.
Jocelyn

done and done!

see added video :b

 

[Hungry]

Yup, if you are a dedicated iron sight shooter, then upgrade with M1 Garand sights, life is sweet! I don't have any spare rear sight knobs right now, though!

If you are planning to scope the rifle, then the iron sights can be left alone! Problem solved !

Cheers,
Barney

 

[svt1940]

done and done!

see added video :b

done and done!

see added video :b

Like i said, mine sight had a bent pinion and the thread on the pinion were poorly done/stripped. When i tried to tighten the little screw on the center of the windage knob, seemed to work but the screw loosened after a few turn. So after reassembly of your sight, tightening that center screw on the windage should fix the problem. The chinese replacement sight i had worked better but nothing close to the italian Garand sight i got and i think the italian sight are in meters.
Jocelyn

 

[Turret Monster]

My threads were stripped from the beginning. $100 or so for a Garand sight. Am happy.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Sir, buy yourself an M1A rear sight assembly and be done with it.
I went through the same heartache myself on my journey of educating myself about the platform.
If you can, try and find a used one to save some cash, if not, just get a new set. It's worth the money.
Honestly, other than the rear sight assy on the Norcs, they are very solidly made battle rifles.
There is a wealth of knowledge on here regarding this platform.

 

[Runt]

Sir, buy yourself an M1A rear sight assembly and be done with it.
I went through the same heartache myself on my journey of educating myself about the platform.
If you can, try and find a used one to save some cash, if not, just get a new set. It's worth the money.
Honestly, other than the rear sight assy on the Norcs, they are very solidly made battle rifles.
There is a wealth of knowledge on here regarding this platform.

lol....I thought it was called a USGI sight then when I read your post it was USGI M1A sight that I bought.....yup works awesome. It was less then $ 100.00 with shipping and all. Its machined beautifuly if you can say that about a sight.

 

[dogzilla]

You won't believe the differance, you get a nice crisp click,click click. I would try to get the Italian guy andy. He usually is only out of stock for a short time, and manages to come up with more. I had his e mail, but must not have transfered it when I got the new computer

 

[BattleRife]

adding a video

/youtube]

Excellent use of technology to show us just what is going on. We should have you fixed by midnight. Just so we are all using the same terms, I will refer to this assembly schematic that I borrowed from Chestnut Ridge Supply and modified:

Your problem is virtually identical to the one I had. You are absolutely right in thinking that the problem is in the rear sight windage knob (52). The rear sight nut (We'll call it RSN), which is permanently assembled inside 52, is supposed to tighten firmly onto the pinion and spin freely inside 52, so that when 52 is turned, RSN stays in place. If it isn't spinning freely, it is probably dirt or machining chips or congealed grease that is causing it to seize. It may also be rough machining, which would make things harder.

Take the sight apart, as you largely have already, but also remove the cover (50), which you rattled in the video but didn't remove. Clean the hell out of everything, being especially sure to flush # 52 with solvent. If the RSN spins freely within 52, you should be set. If it still feels gritty, you will likely need to work some fine abrasive in there (whitening toothpaste, or Comet cleaner with a few drops of water to make a paste) and spin it with a screwdriver to smooth it out. Then flush thoroughly again with water and rubbing alcohol, then dry. Lightly re-oil everything and reassemble. You need to ensure the D-shaped RSN engages the pinion (51) properly. Get a screwdriver that fits 51 nicely and, once you are certain that everything is properly positioned, tighten 51 hard. If it ever moves again, you might consider blue loctite on the pinion shaft.

Proper positioning should have the aperature centered left to right, and the vertical point of impact matching the distance on the elevation knob (typically 7-11 clicks above absolute bottom).

 

[Chumlee Bumsnag]

My stock sight works fine but the aperture is loose . It rattles around and there's no way it can be helping accuracy. Is there a way to tighten it up?

 

[CanadianReich]

Yup, if you are a dedicated iron sight shooter, then upgrade with M1 Garand sights, life is sweet! I don't have any spare rear sight knobs right now, though!

If you are planning to scope the rifle, then the iron sights can be left alone! Problem solved !

Cheers,
Barney

Ive never used a scope and im still getting used to many of the basic iron sights, including these ones.

My plans are to sight in the irons at 250M like the Gis did and set the elevation to 100M and keep it there, forever. I also plan on eventually putting a SCOPE on it as well, I already have the scope mount andI bought a scope but the rings dont fit the mount so...sooner or later ill get it on.

The scope I want sighted in for longer distances.

My theory is I can have the irons for close to intermediate shots and the scope for longer shots over 200M.

 

[CanadianReich]

Excellent use of technology to show us just what is going on. We should have you fixed by midnight. Just so we are all using the same terms, I will refer to this assembly schematic that I borrowed from Chestnut Ridge Supply and modified:

Your problem is virtually identical to the one I had. You are absolutely right in thinking that the problem is in the rear sight windage knob (52). The rear sight nut (We'll call it RSN), which is permanently assembled inside 52, is supposed to tighten firmly onto the pinion and spin freely inside 52, so that when 52 is turned, RSN stays in place. If it isn't spinning freely, it is probably dirt or machining chips or congealed grease that is causing it to seize. It may also be rough machining, which would make things harder.

Take the sight apart, as you largely have already, but also remove the cover (50), which you rattled in the video but didn't remove. Clean the hell out of everything, being especially sure to flush # 52 with solvent. If the RSN spins freely within 52, you should be set. If it still feels gritty, you will likely need to work some fine abrasive in there (whitening toothpaste, or Comet cleaner with a few drops of water to make a paste) and spin it with a screwdriver to smooth it out. Then flush thoroughly again with water and rubbing alcohol, then dry. Lightly re-oil everything and reassemble. You need to ensure the D-shaped RSN engages the pinion (51) properly. Get a screwdriver that fits 51 nicely and, once you are certain that everything is properly positioned, tighten 51 hard. If it ever moves again, you might consider blue loctite on the pinion shaft.

Proper positioning should have the aperature centered left to right, and the vertical point of impact matching the distance on the elevation knob (typically 7-11 clicks above absolute bottom).

awesome