Norinco M305, first shoot, some thoughts and questions

BBq_Woa!

BBq_Woa!

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Hi there

I just got back from a nice weekend of turkey and target shooting,
took out the no.5, garand, and m305..

fun all around, the m305 was interesting and I was hoping some people could give me some info.
As a preface, the gun (before firing) was fully cleaned, oiled well,

During the shoot, I took note that of the three, it seemed to be the most accurate, surprisingly..
It was the most accurate of the three (and of all m14s i've ever used, It was way up there..)

anyway, despite its accuracy, it had a few failings several times. all of them were bolt travel failures (dont know the correct term, the bolt, after firing a round, moved back, ejected the brass, and failed to travel far enough to scrape another round off, resulting in an empty chamber, and requiring operating the bolt to commence)

this happened...about 5 times, during 15 or so 5 round firing sequences..

I don't know if you're going to say this is 'normal' or "ONLY 5 times? har har"
but it isn't really acceptable to me...

I noticed when cleaning it after the shoot, that the bolt's shape seems a little bit retarded.. it has a slightly bent profile..the tolerances of the bolt seem a bit large as well..

I don't know.. I just want to throw money at it, get a replacement bolt and make it perfect, but I'm hoping there's some other explaination.

there is a new recoil buffer in the rifle as well, could this simply need to be "worked in"?

thanks for any thoughts folks!
 
Originally posted by BBQ Whoa

As a preface, the gun (before firing) was fully cleaned, oiled well,
Click to expand...

I have had flawless reliability with my M305, and I largely attribute this to using grease ( as per CGN instructions) as opposed to oil.
 
dunno but my semi auto 22 prefers grease over oil as well.
also check your gas nut as it might be loosening up
 
This rifle was made to fire with grease..you don't need to understand it....just use grease and a lot of it, unless you are in a really dry/dusty places.
Every metal to metal surpface, buttom of bolt/hammer caming area, op-rod tube (inside and out) receiver channels for the bolt and op-rod and ever a little dab under the barrel near the receiver.

I use the Mil-surp plastilube in the little pots.

And yes, check your gas plug.


GG&FB
 
I had that happen once with me. no idea what caused it, however.

Grease it up nice and good. I use a big tub of it called motomaster multi-purpose grease. It comes in a white and green container. After greasing it up and cycling the action it should alot smoother... really noticable. Only bad thing is the smell :S

Is it a new m14?
 
As well as the advice already given, make sure the chamber is free of cosmoline. If it is a new one, the chamber might still have some in it.
 
I suspect the recoil buffer may be preventing the op rod from moving back far enough. Remove it and see what happens.
 
Also make sure there is no cosmoline or lube in the gas cylinder/piston area. Any lube in there with "cook" during firing, and bind up with the normal fouling that enters the gas system. The result will be a gummed-up mess and failure to cycle properly.
 
Mr BBq,

Take it out for a session without the recoil buffer. That will likely solve the problem. Very often (depending on material) the buffer will cause the recoiling parts to "bounce" back too quickly, not allowing the cartridge stack to rise enough to present the base of the next round to the bolt for stripping. IMHO, buffers are completely useless, unless the firearm was designed to use one in the first place. Remember, most buffers are made and sold because people want some cheapo aftermarket dress-up items for their gun, and there is nothing cheaper to pump out for a couple cents apiece (and sold for WAY more) than a cheesy plastic or fibre buffer.

Cheers,
Michael in Edmonton
 
Could be your ammo that you are using.

I run out of surplus and hand loads so I picked up some cheap hunting ammo from igman 150grain soft points. I had the exact same results as you did, would extract but not feed, failure to extract and last but not least exctract strip a round and jam up. Went back to surplus all problems solved.

Easy on the grease with the temparature dropping, the increase of the viscocity of the grease will slow down your bolt and will cause failures.
 
hm. yeah I was using some winchester 150grn soft points haha..
maybe that was it..

but i will still go ahead with all the checks and grease and whatnot.. thanks everyone, you're stellar!
 
Now, here's one of the last pieces of advice... get my Double CD video set of the 2004 Abbotsford Clinic. Or else your #### might fall off. LOL
 
Winchester brand .308 commercially loaded ammo will be using a powder [ probably Win 748?? ] which is coated with a retardant to slow the burn rate. A powder coated with retardent will maintain the pressure curve longer, which helps keep up the pressure at the gas port and maintain reliabile functioning in gas operated rifles, which have the gas port wayyyyyy down the barrel ... such as the M-14.

I have reloaded 7.62 IVI brass to 7.62X39 RUSSIAN duplicate loads == 2400 FPS with 123 GR bullets. Even with these very light loads, I still got reliable functioning out of an 18.5" barrel with a Properly set up M-14,
SO,
I don't think it is the loads ...
but as has been said before, YMMV.

Take a look at the magazine ... if it is sitting too high, or if the mag lips are too rough, the mag can drag the bolt velocity down enough to cause exactly these symptoms. This has occurresd in a few of my 14 clones. Changing the stock out to a GI fiberglass stock may fix the high mag fit problem. Check the loaded/extracted brass for DEEP grooves in the case from the feed lips ... if the lips are rough, a light polish might fix, or simply try some other mags.

The other most obvious culprit could be the shock buff ... IMHO these cause more trouble than they are worth. I've owned dozens of M-14 rifles, shot thousands of rounds out of them, and NEVER used a shok buff. The only excuse for a shock buff is if you were shooting HEAVY bullets at HIGH velocity.

Look next at the gas system ... it should be scrupulously clean, with NO lubrication inside the cylinder, and it should drop back and forth easily of its own weight. The Gas Cylinder LOCK OUT may be out of spec, and not allowing all the gas through, or it could be partially closed. Or in EXTREME cases, the Gas cylinder may be far enough off line with the gas port in the barrel, that again only part of the gas is getting through. A [ small ] drill bit that fits into the barrel gas port should be roughly centered in the [ large ]gas cylinder hole. Shimming is rarely required to fix this misalignment, and once agin gas system shims are IMHO, a complicated solution to a non-existant problem.

Next, without the op rod spring installed take a look at how the op rod/bolt moves . Tilt the action [without spring ] up and down from horizontal. The op rod/bolt should start to slide at a maximum of 45 degrees ... forward and back, and it should smoothly lock and unlock. Hand slicked up actions will slide at about 30 degrees. Check the receiver groove, where the op rod rides in it. Some of these are VERY rough. A GI op rod in a NORC receiver will usually require a LOT of fitting to get it smooth ... and i don't mean removing material from the op rod.

Finally, check the bolt and the bolt lock shoulder in the receiver at the right side. This corner should have a smooooth radius ... the NEW Norc I got required a bit of grinding to get this round instead of mostly square. And while you are in there, check to see if the bolt actually has a roller??

After that ... the hammer could be rough where it rubs against the bolt.

If you check all these issues, and it still doesn't work right ... sell it to someone you don't like for what you paid for it. You should always be able to get your money back out of a stock Norinco M-305.
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
Hungry said:
Now, here's one of the last pieces of advice... get my Double CD video set of the 2004 Abbotsford Clinic. Or else your #### might fall off. LOL
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO!! Now thats marketing! On the otherhand, it also happens to contain some of the most usefull M-14 tuning advice you'll ever obtain for a small amount of money. BUY IT!! you'll never regret it!
 
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