Nork 1911 Jam-o-matic with 185's?

mikeyb

mikeyb

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Well I had a chance to get out to the range with a few guns today. New S&W 22A shot better than I, good enough on paper for me to start bringing it to the indoor range.

I wanted to try comparing the 185's to the 230's in my Nork. Stuffed a couple mags full of Rem UMC 230's, no problems feeding or ejecting. Then I decided to try the Winchester Win-clean 185's, loaded up my first mag and dropped the slide, failed to go in to battery. Racked it and let it slam home, popped off one round, then nothing - failed to go into battery again. Same story repeated itself for most of a 50 round box, very rarely was I able to make back-to-back shots with the 185's.

I switched back to the 230's and kept pounding holes in paper, entire mags without a problem, probably 6 mags worth.

I had previously tried 200 grain bullets (moderate handloads with cast) and had one failure to go into battery (mag not seated), but no problems after that.

Is that common with the 185's? I never figured they'd be that big of a problem. I've put 100x 200 grains (lead swc) and another 200x 230 grains (mixed FMJ and HP) without a hiccup, but the gun can't chew through the 185's at all. Is it an ammo problem? The length appears to be fine according to my calipers but it won't feed for sh!t.

Ramp problems maybe? It's actually been gone over and smoothed a bit so that shouldn't be it. Mag problem specific to the 185's? Or is it a bullet profile thing?

I'm only curious because when I DID land rounds on target, they grouped better than the 230's. Also, the 230's shoot quite low even at only 10 yards while the 185's are noticeably higher. They shouldn't be THAT much higher, but they are, only about 2 inches below the target as opposed to 5 or 6 inches.

Thoughts?
 
GLOCK_PERFECTION said:
Same thing here I got problems with 185gr flat nose. The gun run perfectly with 230gr round nose.

It's a 350$ gun after all......
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Just looking at your user name, and remembering being at the range with an older Gentleman who's Glock 21 wouldn't feed a flatnose .45 ACP round half the time either.

Not sure they were 185 grain, but he sure was pissed his new Glock wouldn't feed them!

Just sayin.............
 
I am reloading .45ACP and started with a 200 grn round nose flat point and they wouldn't feed reliably in either of my 1911's (Colt & SAM). Just got a mould to cast 230 grn round nose and will test them tomorrow..
 
I have four Norc 1911 in 45. They all shoot the 200gr SWC cast bullet perfectly. Accurate, too.

I rand a box (500) of 185 SWC through them. They cycled just fine, but accuracy was not as good as the 200.

I would have adjusted the OAL of the 185 to enhance feeding. The factory ammo may not suit your gun.
 
Sounds to me like your gun is totally defective, and you should sell it quick? I'll take it of your hands for $100.00. It's defective after all! LOL

I've heard of a lot of feeding problems with SWC and 1911. They were never intentionally designed for that type of bullet profile. I think your on the way with polishing the feed ramp, but you may need some help with a gunsmith to help you out.
 
you're not the first to have problems with the 185; it's problematic across the board, and most folks i know have gone back to the 200 swc of some kind( gibbs or something) after tearing their hair out by the roots- change mags, slides, springs, powder charges, it JUST DOESN'T MATTER- that bullet is just plain UNRELiABLE- and since it uses roughly the same powder charge as the 200, you may as well use the 200
oh and btw, i DON'T have a norc- ones a remington rand,( dead stock issue) and the other's a colt m4 series 70- so it's NOT a quality problem
 
Are these 185's SWC? Have never heard of or seen 185's. Can some one post an image please.

M
 
the ones i have so much fun with are hensley and gibbs 130's- you step up to the 200s- which is EXACTLY the same design, with the single driving band,and your problems disappear- granted, mine are cactus plains copies, but that shouldn't matter
 
I'm a firm believer that it still comes down to frame and barrel design. My Smith & Wesson 4506 will eat 185's all day without a hiccup. Of course it does have a properly cut frame and Wilson/Nolin type barrel ramp.

Again though the 1911 was specifically designed to feed 230gr round nose ball ammo.
 
The 1911 was designed to shoot 230 grain bullets, so id your having feed problems on less grain bullets, one answer is to stick with 230 grain bullets, the other is get the feed ramp polished, and that should not be to much of a problem to get that done. As the feed ramps on a Norc are already almost done.
 
Some good input basically confirming my suspicion that the 185 doesn't have an ideal profile for the 1911 without some tuning. It really is a shame, the Win-clean ammo was expensive but it shoots beautifully in my gun, and drops a whole lot less than the 230's which won't even stay on paper at 25 yards :(

I'm going to break it down today and take a closer look when I clean it out, hopefully there are some indicators there. I was simply hoping the 185's would work since my gun has a "shoot low" problem and the lighter (and cheaper) bullets at higher velocity seemed like a good way to correct that without changing the sights.
 
mine is the same, shoots 230 ball just fine. when i got my first press and 500 185 or 200 gr SWC bullets, it would have feeding issues maybe once a mag or every other.
 
Now there are 1911's out there that seem to shoot 185's very well. I know a couple of guys that shoot that bullet specifically. Now they are shooting them in 1K STI's.
 
The Norc 1911 is a direct copy of the 1911A1 that was originally approved for service way back in 1924. They were built to feed 230gr RN bullets as that was the US service bullet at the time. Many 1911's won't feed anything but round-nose bullets with any reliability unless the feed ramp is modified, either before or after purchase.

My Norc 1911A1 doesn't like to feed anything other than round-nose bullets, so that's all I use in it. I reload lead RN bullets for shooting Steel Challenge anyway.
 
shredder said:
The Norc 1911 is a direct copy of the 1911A1 that was originally approved for service way back in 1924.
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I'm unfamiliar with the Norinco. Does the barrel have the same throat as original military? If it does, the barrel may need altered to accept the different bullet type.

shredder said:
Many 1911's won't feed anything but round-nose bullets with any reliability unless the feed ramp is modified, either before or after purchase.
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You are talking alterations to the barrel, not the frame...correct? If so, I agree completely.

~~~

Adjusting the extractor may help feeding.
 
shredder said:
The Norc 1911 is a direct copy of the 1911A1 that was originally approved for service way back in 1924. They were built to feed 230gr RN bullets as that was the US service bullet at the time. Many 1911's won't feed anything but round-nose bullets with any reliability unless the feed ramp is modified, either before or after purchase.

My Norc 1911A1 doesn't like to feed anything other than round-nose bullets, so that's all I use in it. I reload lead RN bullets for shooting Steel Challenge anyway.
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I'd say this is Nork owner is on the right track to what the pistol is designed to fire reliably, without mod's.
 
Lodi said:
Does the barrel have the same throat as original military? If it does, the barrel may need altered to accept the different bullet type.
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I believe that is the case.

The US Army settled on the 45 cal round in 1904 IIRC. It just took John Browning a few years to perfect the 1911 model pistol.

There WAS a pistol made to take the 45ACP round called the Model 1905, also by John Browning. For some reason, the US Army didn't like it, so Browning had to alter the design. He wound up with the 1911 pistol, one of the best (and certainly longest-lasting semi-auto service) pistols in the world today.
 
Almost every 1911 with military specification barrels will not feed SWCs and really have problems with 185 grSWCs. Cure has always been "throating" the feed opening of the barrel- basically so that about 90 degrees of sloped opening exists rather than just 20.

Dr Jim
 
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