Norwegian Krag Shooting Question

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello again fair folk of CGN!

I now own an old Norwegian Krag Carbine sporter and wish to shoot it. I keep coming across mention on the internet that one cannot use normal 6.5X55 Swedish loads that are factory, or hot reloads at or over 45,000 cpu. Apparently "light loads" are the only thing to do. Is this true? If not, I could buy some Prvi Partisan or Winchester bullets for it.

Otherwise, I only have Winchester 760 powder, and don't have access to anything else, other than an old pound of IMR 4350. Could someone please help me make a safe, light load with these powders by tomorrow if possible? I will be using 100 grain FMJ and 140 grain gas check lead bullets. I have a set of Lee 6.5X55 dies.

Thanks in advance!

-Drachenblut
 
If you're shooting cast, you really should have a quicker powder.

If you're shooting a carbine, you really should have a quicker powder.

But The New Toy just MUST be shot, a sentiment with which I concur.

Try your 140 cast gas-checks with about 41 or 42 of your 4350 powder. That will be safe, most definitely. Be prepared for a loud noise, though, as the cast bullets tend to slip down the bore rather easily; your critter won't build a great deal of pressure and there could be powder burning in the air, which makes noise.

I really don't understand the cautions you have been reading, though. The Norski Krag and the Svensk Mauser were developed and adopted at the same time, for the same ammunition. It used a 156-grain RN slug at 2395 ft/sec. As long as you stay with something in that ballpark, you shouldn't have any massive problems. I have shot my Norwegian Krag with Norma-Oslo seal-hunting ammo (156RNSP) and with fresh Sellier & Bellot (139STBT) and I haven't blown us up. Yet. Haven't hit much, either: needs a barrel!

Have fun!
 
Run your rifle for what it's most accurate shooting.

For one thing, you're smart enough not to go over the top loads in the book.

For another thing, I have not yet met the rifle that shoots its best with absolute full-house barn-burner loads. The majority of rifles I have tested shoot their best with loads BELOW the top loads generally found in the loading books. What the pressures might be, I have no idea, being that I don't have the equipment to test for pressure. But I DO know that the book loads should be safe.... and mine are well under theirs.... so, by reason, my loads should be safe.

You now know what the book loads are and you know what the original factory performance of the cartridge was at the time it was adopted. Just remember that they obtained that performance with flake powders which were nowhere nearly as progressive-burning as what we have today. With current powders, you should be able to approach the old-time standards very safely.

Original performance was obtained with barrel lengths of 30 inches or so. This is always a point to remember. I don't know how long the barrel on your rifle is, but it looks like it is short enough that you should be accepting a reduction in velocity of about 200 ft/sec if loading to original specs. This likely will be somewhat less because of our more modern propellants, but you will be taking SOME decrease in velocity and power.

But it is likely that you won't even want to go as hot as original factory because you will have chanced upon a load that works very well in your rifle.... and the chances are that it will be a fairly mild load.

Enjoy!
 
Last edited:
Smellie,
Well it seems like I've cooked up a few loads to try today. Both seem to be, according to online and book sources, under 39,000 CPU. The load you suggested, of 41-42 grains of IMR 4350 is actually 4-3 grains (respectively) under the minimum in 2 books and online... just how far can you down-load before it becomes unsafe to fire? What EXACTLY IS a "minimum load"? Is it mimimum for effective game-takedown at a certain range or minimum to push the bullet out of the barrel, even if it flops to the ground 5 feet away?
 
Wow, so many questions about the poor old Krag. Now I'll ask one. You have this Krag, so would you shoot a factory loaded, 180 grain bullet in your Krag? I am looking at a couple of boxes of CIL Dominion brand. On them is states, "for use in rifles designated: 30-40 Krag, 30 Army, 30 USA., 30-40." If you would shoot these in your rifle, then you are shooting the approximate equal in pressure of those marked, "Maximum," in the loading books. Note that this is the same ammunition as designated for the Model 95 Winchester 30 US. That was considered quite a potent load.
The 30 Krag was a good moose killer and CIL made a great amount of ammunition for them back in the 1930s, when so many moose and other wild game was shot to keep families eating, year round.
Is there any reason why your Krag is any different than all those other Krags that were out there shooing moose?
Why are you so concerned about loading so super light for it?
 
H4831 said:
Wow, so many questions about the poor old Krag. Now I'll ask one. You have this Krag, so would you shoot a factory loaded, 180 grain bullet in your Krag? I am looking at a couple of boxes of CIL Dominion brand. On them is states, "for use in rifles designated: 30-40 Krag, 30 Army, 30 USA., 30-40." If you would shoot these in your rifle, then you are shooting the approximate equal in pressure of those marked, "Maximum," in the loading books. Note that this is the same ammunition as designated for the Model 95 Winchester 30 US. That was considered quite a potent load.
The 30 Krag was a good moose killer and CIL made a great amount of ammunition for them back in the 1930s, when so many moose and other wild game was shot to keep families eating, year round.
Is there any reason why your Krag is any different than all those other Krags that were out there shooing moose?
Why are you so concerned about loading so super light for it?
Click to expand...

There is more than one version of the krag rifle,his is chambered in 6.5x55 not 30-40 and that version has developed a reputation of the bolt lugs cracking and shearing off which is why the low pressure ammo is recommended.
 
none said:
There is more than one version of the krag rifle,his is chambered in 6.5x55 not 30-40 and that version has developed a reputation of the bolt lugs cracking and shearing off which is why the low pressure ammo is recommended.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I missed the 6.5 bit.
 
True, but a LOT of rifles have "developed reputations" for all kinds of nasty and ugly things.

Six-point-five Krags shed lugs... but mine is okay.

Cooey Carcanos are Death on Swift Wings for the shooter... but there is a thread in this forum in which one was tested to destruction.... and it took a HUGE amount to wreck it.

ROSS Rifles, of course, have that deadly 'bolt blowback' problem.... but I have more than a dozen of them and have been shooting Rosses for very nearly 50 years now.... and I'm still in one piece.

I recommended a very light load because of (1) the slow powder (gigantic BOOMs are not fun) so that it would be more likely to burn in what barrel he has, (2) for Drachenblut's peace-of-mind on the first trial of his new rifle, and (3) because I am pretty sure he would find them wimpy enough that he would want to start loading up..... and this would give him more leeway in which to find that 'sweet load' with which his rifle will sit up and do tricks. With loads this light, the biggest problem he might face will be a lack of bullet stabilisation, for which the best-known cure is simply to load a bit hotter.

If Drachenblut had had a tin of Red Dot, likely I would have recommended that he try the old C.E. Harris 1800 ft/sec "Universal" load: 13 grains of Red Dot. Pretty hard to get into trouble with that one.

What I don't understand is this modern idea that any load under about 2800 ft/sec is something to be avoided, rather as one puts onions under the bed to avoid the Black Death. The .30-'06 came out at only 2700, the .303 at 1900, the .43 Mauser at 1430.... and those all were MAXIMUM loads. The old .303, as one example, fired uncounted millions of 115-grain and 125-grain rounds in the transonic range.... and there are still Lee-Metfords and a few Lee-Enfields around which haven't been blown up. I would think a Krag firing a light load should not be too terribly dangerous.
 
I would think that the .30-40 would be a lot harder on the rifle than the relatively-mild 6.5x55 when loaded to similar pressure levels.

H-4831, you have a lot of experience. Tell us, kindly, are the woods up in your area positively littered with the shattered remains of .30-40 Krag rifles?

I rather suspect not.

NO factory that wants to stay in business is going to deliberately load ammunition which is anything CLOSE to dangerous in the rifles for which they know darned well it is GOING to be shot.
 
Well. Here is the scoop. I have loaded 120 rounds of 6.5X55 Swedish ammunition. I loaded 30 rounds with 140 grain gas check lead bullets. This was ontop of 42.0 grains of Winchester 760 powder. Sound safe?
The rest was 100 grain FMJ spire point Hornady bullets, ontop of 45.0 grains of Winchester 760 (The Hogdon Reloading Data Site states this to be .5 grains above the minimum load, which produces pressures of about 37,000 CPU.)

I think these should be nice, sound loads in my Krag. Can anyone confirm who has had experience with this powder?
 
Any experience I have had with the more modern Winchester powders has been with their quicker-burning 748.

I think some of the loads in the Winchester book are a bit optimistic in the velocity department, but they are certainly safe.

One nice thing about the Winchester powder is that you can turn out some superbly accurate ammo with it.

If Winchester says that this load is okay, then go for it... and be sure to have fun!
 
Good news! The 100 grain FMJ bullets with 45 grains of Winchester 760 powder, as well as 140 grain gas checks with the same load, functioned perfectly and accurately in the Norwegian Krag sporter I now have. I cannot believe how smooth the action is! You barely feel you have picked up a round. I did fire a round I had loaded to 42.0 grains, and well... all I felt was a sudden whoosh of something like a force/air on my face, bolt held together fine, and when I extracted the round, it was charred down most of the case nearly to the base. Last one of those "super light" loads I fired! Any idea what happened?

Otherwise, I will make a range report another time. Cheers!
 
Quite possible cosmic. Thank you for your consideration. I will say, I love that little Krag! Perhaps I will get the videos of the gas checks firing... the Winchester 760 comes out in a huge puff of smoke, it looks like black powder. Very amusing.
 
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