OAL for 147 gr Campro RNFP Copper Plated for Shadow 1

ambishooter

ambishooter

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Been using 9mm 135 gr Hardcast Bullets for over 10 yrs before I decided to go Copper Plated. Titegroup, W231 and Bullseye are my go to powder. Few years back, I was given over 500-pcs 147 gr Hardcast bullets. Reloaded a few, made adjustments to OAL, it feeds reliably. 3.0 grs of TG, W231 and BE. Now, the PROBLEM:
Bullet Tumbles/Keyholes like crazy. Just under 27 mm OAL for Shadow 1, inconsistently tumbles/keyholes/ I made adjustments to OAL and Powder Charge, not much improvement. Any idea where or what am I missing using this 147 gr hard cast bullets? What I also noticed, the diameter is inconsistent. Sometimes bullet is harder to seat and crimp. I am thinking of running another test loads, and dump the bullets if I do not get the results I wanted. NO problem with lighter 135 gr hardcast.

I will start developing, or I may say using my loads for 135 gr and suggested load for 147 gr Campro Copper Plated bullets. I am just wary of what is causing my hardcast 147 gr bullet to keyhole/tumble? Inconsistent Diameter? OAL or powder charge?

Any suggestions for 9 mm Shadow 1?
 
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1. Have you checked the velocity ? E.g. 3.2gr of TG gives me around 910 fps with 147 RNFP, both my cast and Cam-pro. OAL is around 1.09" to work in both Shadows, 1 and 2.
2. Most likely, undersized bullets or oversized or worn (relatively) barrel.
3. Alloy is too soft - probably not the case if it's really hard-cast and proper diameter of .356" .
4. Over-crimped severely.

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ambishooter said:
Been using 9mm 135 gr Hardcast Bullets for over 10 yrs before I decided to go Copper Plated. Titegroup, W231 and Bullseye are my go to powder. Few years back, I was given over 500-pcs 147 gr Hardcast bullets. Reloaded a few, made adjustments to OAL, it feeds reliably. 3.0 grs of TG, W231 and BE. Now, the PROBLEM:
Bullet Tumbles/Keyholes like crazy. Just under 27 mm OAL for Shadow 1, inconsistently tumbles/keyholes/ I made adjustments to OAL and Powder Charge, not much improvement. Any idea where or what am I missing using this 147 gr hard cast bullets? What I also noticed, the diameter is inconsistent. Sometimes bullet is harder to seat and crimp. I am thinking of running another test loads, and dump the bullets if I do not get the results I wanted. NO problem with lighter 135 gr hardcast.

I will start developing, or I may say using my loads for 135 gr and suggested load for 147 gr Campro Copper Plated bullets. I am just wary of what is causing my hardcast 147 gr bullet to keyhole/tumble? Inconsistent Diameter? OAL or powder charge?

Any suggestions for 9 mm Shadow 1?
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Varying COAL is extremely unlikely to be the cause of your keyholing. Lack of stabilization due to inconsistent bullet diameter or blown out barrel is way more likely, IMO. But seeing as how it's just about impossible to shoot out a 9mm pistol barrel, it's more than likely your bullets.

I load 124s and 147s (Plated) for an SP-01 Shadow, and I've varied my COAL by as much as .100"ish, and no noticeable difference in accuracy/POI (I was closer to book COAL, but shortened them for feeding in a PCC).
 
Stabilization in flight.

1) A worn barrel, as previously mentioned by the fine people above.

2) A heavily leaded barrel.

3) The bullet diameter is too small (slug the barrel).

4) You think you have 147gr 9mm bullets but you don't because they were gifted to you. Measure a random sample of 20 - 30 bullets.

My money is on 2 or 4.

Now, as for the 147gr CamPro I can suggest a charge range of 3.2gr - 3.6gr for Titegroup or Bullseye (I personally like 3.5gr of either and MY OAL for my Shadow 1 is 1.09). Always determine your own OAL.

The reason why you should always determine your own OAL:

Determine-OAL.gif


Examples of how your OAL will change depending on the bullet/barrel combo:

CZ-OAL.jpg


Plunk and spin video:

 
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Campro 147 9mm bullet in 9x19, in a Shadow 1 or Shadow 2, should be loaded at 1.095" COAL in my experience. Any longer and you'll start jamming the bullet into the rifling, which can prevent the slide from going into battery.
 
It looks like more of the OAL. My bad, I posted an OAL of under 27 mm, it should be under 28 mm. Between 27.7 to 27.9 which is about 1.09. But the thing I noticed when seating the bullet is the pressure required. Sometimes, easy to seat and crimp. Few times, need to press harder to seat and crimp. About the leading on barrel, It was just cleaned prior to this test load. And barrel is in very good shape, under 10k round count, with 99% hardcast usage.
I do not have a chrono to check velocity. I will try a 27.5 (1.075) OAL and a 3.0 gr load on the hardcast. Might also try samplings on 135 and 147 Campro plated bullets using TG.
 
I also noticed the same situation when loading hardcast. Few times, I had this issue preventing the slide going into battery. In few cases, a pain to remove the live round from chamber.

adamg said:
Campro 147 9mm bullet in 9x19, in a Shadow 1 or Shadow 2, should be loaded at 1.095" COAL in my experience. Any longer and you'll start jamming the bullet into the rifling, which can prevent the slide from going into battery.
Click to expand...
 
I've never heard of OAL being the cause of tumbling in pistol rounds. It's all about stabilization in flight, like a football, the bullet needs to spin.

Having already loaded rounds that wouldn't chamber to begin with is pretty telling. Again, determine your own OAL. Make a dummy round, no powder or primer, barely seat the bullet, apply no crimp (just return the case mouth spec to .380 [ditch the mm]), and keep shortening the round until it plunks and spins in the barrel you want to shoot that round in.

You keep saying that some rounds are hard to seat and crimp, but you seem to think it's coincidental. What brass are you loading? Range pickup? Could it be stepped? Is it all 9mm? Have you measured a finished round that was hard to seat and crimp against one that wasn't? Have you measured all aspects of a random selection of bullets like I suggested? What if the person you got the bullets from had other bullets mixed in accidentally? What if they changed the box without relabelling? Do you use a LEE Factory Crimp Die?
 
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I have seen OAL a factor in tumbling/keyholing when I was using 125 gr. I pushed it to short, as short as 1mm when doing the plunk test. Seating it longer, plunk tested, I am getting good accuracy. I am using Range Brass, Tumbled and Full Length Resized. I have not measured the lead bullets yet, maybe this weekend. The bullets I got was from a batch he made few years back. And yes, I will have to check dimensions as soon as get a chance later this week.
I also use Lee Factory Crimp Die. Both the Seating and Crimp Die are cleaned prior to use.

4n2t0 said:
I've never heard of OAL being the cause of tumbling in pistol rounds. It's all about stabilization in flight, like a football, the bullet needs to spin.

Having already loaded rounds that wouldn't chamber to begin with is pretty telling. Again, determine your own OAL. Make a dummy round, no powder or primer, barely seat the bullet, apply no crimp (just return case mouth to spec .380 [ditch the mm]) and keep shortening the round until it plunks and spins in the barrel you want to shoot that round in.

You keep saying that some rounds are hard to seat and crimp, but you seem to think it's coincidental. What brass are you loading? Range pickup? Could it be stepped? Is it all 9mm? Have you measured a finished round that was hard to seat and crimp against one that wasn't? Have you measured all aspects of a random selection of bullets like I suggested? What if the person you got the bullets from had other bullets mixed in accidentally? What if they changed the box without relabelling? Do you use a LEE Factory Crimp Die?
Click to expand...
 
Stuck live rounds is a clear sign of OAL being too long for particular bullet (including irregular-shaped bullet).

It's a totally different issue unrelated to stabilization. However it's probably a bad batch of cast regardless.

ambishooter said:
I also noticed the same situation when loading hardcast. Few times, I had this issue preventing the slide going into battery. In few cases, a pain to remove the live round from chamber.
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Your 125gr load improved in accuracy, but it didn't go from tumbling to not tumbling, correct? Because I can't begin to understand how or why OAL would make your bullet tumble. Maybe, although not likely, one could crush swage the bullet!?

FYI...your Lee Factory Crimp die is swaging the entire round, including the bullet. Normally, this isn't an issue, but god knows what's going on with your rounds.

Anywho, it sounds like you've got this all figured out. Let us know what conclusion you come too.

P.S. No one knows what 1 mm means, lol, and I don't care to look up the conversion.
 
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4n2t0 said:
Your 125gr load improved in accuracy, but it didn't go from tumbling to not tumbling, correct? Because I can't begin to understand how or why OAL would make your bullet tumble. Maybe, although not likely, one could crush swage the bullet!?

FYI...your Lee Factory Crimp die is swaging the entire round, including the bullet. Normally, this isn't an issue, but god knows what's going on with your rounds.

Anywho, it sounds like you've got this all figured out. Let us know what conclusion you come too.

P.S. No one knows what 1 mm means, lol, and I don't care to look up the conversion.
Click to expand...

Many/most people know what 1mm means. And 25.4. You're welcome.
 
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