Odd enfield

WR1894

Regular
GunNutz
Rating - 100%
21   0   0
Not sure what I looked at the other day but thought it was kind of odd, on the side of the gun was engraved
276 British Rifle
Sporting ( Convert ) Model 1
1923
It looks like a cutdown P14 but the 276 marking is odd and it looked to be about a 7MM cal. The only serial number I could find was 34
I do have some british sporting rifles but this gun is not proofed except military proof marks
Any ideas what it is?
Thanks
John
 
Odd Enfield

Good Lord, Yes. You have probably have one of the rare P-13 Trials rifles.

The British considered replacing the SMLE and came up with the design, using a .276 diameter bullet, with a Mauser type forward locking action.

They were ready to adopt it in about 1914, but the First World War started with Germany, and it would not have been wise to field a new design when the troops were familiar with the SMLE.

Because of the shortage of rifles, the plans and some sample models were sent to the United States, and the design was changed to use the .303 British cartridge. This became the P-14, made by Winchester, Remington and Eddystone.

Send a P.M. to SMELLIE. He will be able to tell you more about them, but you will probably hear a lot of heavy breathing, as he tries to control his breath about one of these.

.
 
"...rare P-13 Trials rifles..." May well be. And it'd be exceedingly rare. Only 1,000 were made.
The developement of the .276 was stopped because it caused rapid barrel and chamber wear and it had a nasty habit of 'cooking off' due to excess heat.
Have a look here. http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/ri7.htm
 
I have one of those. I have had it rebarreled to 308 as the ammo was impossible to find. The only difference is that mine is dated 1913 and has a full length stock.
 
First off: congratulations!!!!!!!

Second: about proofing. Military and civil Proof in England at that time were exactly the same except that, if anything, the military was more rigorous. Any British rifle which had undergone military proofing would not have required a civilian proofing unless it wewre rebarrelled or had undergone a complete rebuild.

Third: P.-'13 production. There were two batches produced, the original 5 rifles at Enfield and then a quantity of 1,000 for the 1913 troop trials. Exactly who these 1,000 rifles were produced by, and where, still is the topic of some debate. There is a considerable body of opinion saying that the 1,000 Trials rifles were built by BSA, but there appears to be little on paper one way or the other. There have just been SO MANY paper cremations. But then, I'm a historian by training, so I hoard old papers.

I have heard that a FEW original military P.-'13 rifles were sold off in Ontario in the 1950s, but the vast majority just seem to have disappeared into the woodwork... or the smelter. I know that they are quite expensive enough that I will never own one.

Now, as to the P.-'13 itself. Its official name was the .276" Rifle, Pattern of 1913.

What had happened in the Second Boer War, basically, was that the British Army had had its collective BUTT shot off by a bunch of FARMERS. Officialdom may have been satisfied to leave things as they were, but the Army was not. Those FARMERS had been armed, for the most part, with their 96 rifle, which was a small-ring German-built Mauser of the 1895 type and it was chambered in 7x57 (although some 7x54 ammunition was sent to South Africa during the War; the rifles would accommodate either, as the only difference was 3mm in the neck).

And so the starting-point would seem to be to out-seven-millimetre the 7mm and to out-Mauser the Mauser. The Americans, who had had THEIR collective butts kicked off during the Spanish-American War, by exactly the same rifle and cartridge in the hands of a bunch of SPANIARDS, did exactly the same thing, developing the 1903 Springfield and the .30-'06 in retaliation. But the Brits never do anything RASH, you know, so they approached things in an incremental manner.

The FIRST step was to design a cartridge. Just about this time, the Canadian .280 ROSS was kicking VERY serious butt on the long-range matches which were popular at that time, so it was used, being that it was a 7mm, as the basis for the new round. The ROSS cartridge was shortened slightly and toned down a bit in performance, but the new cartridge, the .276" test round, remained pretty much a Magnum-class cartridge and it certainly was Magnum-class in size.

Then came the rifle. The 1895 Mauser (of which the Brits had far too many on hand, all with bad memories attached) was scaled UP in size, becoming fatter and longer: a true Magnum-length and Magnum-pressure action. A big set of protective 'ears' was added to protect the aperture rear sight (first in general service in the world), the bolt-handle was given a crook so that the rifle could be reloaded and fired extremely rapidly in the same fashion as the Lee-Enfield.... and the first 5 rifles were made and presented to the Board of Ordnance and then the orders were given for another 1,000 to be built.

In the 1913 troop trials, the rifle proved to have heavy and sharp recoil, both from the very heavy loads they were using. The ammunition proved to have too much flash when shot at night, and so Woolwich Arsenal began work on improving the ammunition.

And that is where things stood when that dear Herr Princip emptied his silly little Serbian-purchased Browning .32 into the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and the Archduchess Sophie, thus getting World War One, a month later, into action.

The British Army REALLY wanted that new rifle, but they had a war on their hands and it would be stupid to try to issue 2 major battle rifle rounds at the same time. However, a bolt-face which could handle the wide base of the .276 could ALSO handle the rim of the .303. And the rifle itself was pure Mauser: change the barrel and you change the calibre. Switching rear sights and magazine-boxes would fit a .303 Super-Mauser to the .276 it was intended for!! Even the taper of the cartridges was close enough that likely no work on the feed-rails would even be needed!

So the Brits let out contracts to Winchester (which did nearly all of the tooling AND made the pilot models, of which I have s/n 305), to Remington and to Remington's gigantic new plant at Eddystone, Pennsylvania (a converted locomotive factory) to build the new rifle. Board of Ordnance approval dragged and it took time to get the plants into operation, but the Americans did manage to turn out a couple of million of the NEW rifles, now called the Pattern of 1914, in .303" calibre. As the War dragged onward, British rifle production caught up with demand and the British started cancelling contracts early in 1917.

Then in April, 1917 the US declared war and had about one rifle for every 5 men they were going to send overseas. Hastily, the Pattern of 1914 was converted to handle the immensely-powerful American .30-'06 cartridge and another 2-million-odd rifles built. The "American Enfield" in .30-'06 was, without doubt, the best battle rifle of the Great War.... even if it wasn't quite as fast as the SMLE.

But what became of those 1005 rifles produced for the Trials of 1913?

There certainly aren't enough of them around in original trim to make up more than a tenth of that number. They are VERY rare. If they were not, I would have one, even if I had to chew open the vault to get one with my own teeth!

It now APPEARS that a very few of them, particularly Serial Number 34, were converted into Sporters by BSA (the original manufacturer?) in 1923. I know that there WERE P-13 receivers discovered at BSA at the time that the Small Heath plant was pulled down, almost 40 years ago, and that fuelled part of the debate as to the manufacture of the original Pattern 1913 rifles.

So now we know that SOME, at least, were offered as Sporters IN THE ORIGINAL CALIBRE. I would think it highly likely that others would have been converted into various 'African" calibres as well.

But there is at least ONE left, Sporter conversion, nicely dated, still in the original calibre.

And that appears to be ALL.

Could you be so kind as to post a whole BIG bunch of photos for us to drool at?


AND...... do you have any ammo for it? I REALLY need a round!!!!!

Verily, verily, the Enfield Fairy looketh upon Thee with great Favour!
 
Last edited:
czechitout: replace your barrel!!!!!

RCBS will make dies. Ammo can be made from .300H&H: FL size, trim half of belt, trim to length and load. Standard .284" bullet. A double for the 7mm Remington, pretty much.

OhmiGAWD!!!
 
Last edited:
I have one of those. I have had it rebarreled to 308 as the ammo was impossible to find. The only difference is that mine is dated 1913 and has a full length stock.

I can only hope you are joking...if you really did so, you converted a rifle worth up to 10K to a $400 one...

Still got that barrel? :eek:

I've heard removing a barrel from the P13/14/17 action is near impossible...very easy to ##### a receiver with the torque involved.

Some say to make a relief cut on the barrel just in front of the action to relieve the torque.

You were joking...right?
 
I can only hope you are joking...if you really did so, you converted a rifle worth up to 10K to a $400 one...

Still got that barrel? :eek:

I've heard removing a barrel from the P13/14/17 action is near impossible...very easy to ##### a receiver with the torque involved.

Some say to make a relief cut on the barrel just in front of the action to relieve the torque.

You were joking...right?

The gunsmith had to cut the barrel to remove it.

No way was it worth 10K, it was useless as it was.
 
czechitout: replace your barrel!!!!!

RCBS will make dies. Ammo can be made from .300H&H: FL size, trim half of belt, trim to length and load. Standard .284" bullet. A double for the 7mm Remington, pretty much.

OhmiGAWD!!!

I would get it rebarreled again in 7mm Rem Mag if it would make it worth 10K, but I like it in 308.
 
The gunsmith had to cut the barrel to remove it.

No way was it worth 10K, it was useless as it was.

I thought you did have it chambered in 7mm rem mag because it was the closest to the original caliber? Then you put a scope on it. It was mighty shiny from what I remember. Something like this maybe?
IMG_0296.jpg
 
Czech. is just joshing. He actually converted it to an open bolt Sten.

Photos of the rifle would be interesting. I know a chap who has a target rifle that was built up years ago on a P13 action.
Cantom - you've seen Bob's P13 w/bayonet?
 
I will try to get some pictures in the next couple of days, it sound like I should buy it.
Roughly any ideas on value
John
 
czechitout = spencer = troll. The odds he had a real P13 and bubba'd it = zero.

As for a P13 that's been sportered, it not worth $10K. Not even close. An untouched original, maybe. A sporter? A few hundred bucks max. The stock and an uncut barrel the defining characteristics of a real P13.
 
Czech. is just joshing. He actually converted it to an open bolt Sten.

Photos of the rifle would be interesting. I know a chap who has a target rifle that was built up years ago on a P13 action.
Cantom - you've seen Bob's P13 w/bayonet?

Yes I have Tiriaq. At the time I didn't know what I was looking at really, but I learned.

There was talk about making a run of ammo for his, but I think it was too hard to do if I remember correctly.
 
Over the years the Patt 1913 has become perhaps the "Holy Grail" of Enfield collectors with many conflicting stories. It gennerally accepted that most of the first 1000 were tested to distruction with very few surviving in usable condition. The next 250 were made incorperating improvements and were not so harsley treated in testing and a further 8 were made up with additional modifications. Wether or not the first five were included or in addition to the first 1000 makes total production 1258 or1263.
I have rifle 1235 and bayo 1197 and a supply of new custom made ammo. As soon as we get to the range I shall post a performance report.
 
Back
Top Bottom