Odd trend in Sporter inflation...?
- Thread starter ChromeArty
- Start date
Rifleman1911
CGN Regular
- Location
- Leduc county AB
^^^^^^^
What he said. !!!!!!!
What he said. !!!!!!!
This thread enticed me to bring out my stable of Enfields.
This cut down, Savage made #4 with 22 inch barrel and good bush sights, is actually a pretty good handy rifle. With the detachable magazines they are much preferred for a truck/quad rifle than a lever 30-30.
This next one I got a long time ago. It is redone with SUSSEX rolled on the barrel and with it's five shot detachable mag, 19.5 inch barrel and Lyman aperture sight, it is a good bush gun. We have taken it many thousands of miles in our travel trailer and on our quad.
And then there is this one with 24 inch barrel, nicely crowned.
And this one. Done by Churchill Gunmakers of Bury Street, London, with 22 inch barrel.
This cut down, Savage made #4 with 22 inch barrel and good bush sights, is actually a pretty good handy rifle. With the detachable magazines they are much preferred for a truck/quad rifle than a lever 30-30.
This next one I got a long time ago. It is redone with SUSSEX rolled on the barrel and with it's five shot detachable mag, 19.5 inch barrel and Lyman aperture sight, it is a good bush gun. We have taken it many thousands of miles in our travel trailer and on our quad.
And then there is this one with 24 inch barrel, nicely crowned.
And this one. Done by Churchill Gunmakers of Bury Street, London, with 22 inch barrel.
ChromeArty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Sunshine Coast (PR)
now that is just smart!
vstar650ca
CGN Regular
Now that is a great idea and maybe a EE "For Sale" section for Bubba rifles that can be restored or used for parts
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I'm shocked at how fast cut down #4 sporters have gone up in price. From $75 a couple of years ago to a couple of hundred and more now. AND, people are paying those prices. For a restore project, they are getting a bit too pricey once you add all the wood and bits. It's moving to a more expensive hobby.
I think that what happened is that
:(1) people who fire more than a magazine of .303 at a time (i.e. those who are also target-shooters, as oppose to strictly-hunters) began to appreciate that the No.4 sporters have a thicker barrel than the SMLE barrel,
(2) the ability to fire more shots more consistently (i.e. with less barrel heat-up and shot-wandering) drove the price of No.4 sporters up rather substantially over the price of SMLE sporters, and
(3) there were enough people who didn't see/understand the reason behind the increase of No.4 sporters over SMLE sporters, and so started to price/buy SMLE sporters at prices that comparatively increased as much as No.4 sporters did.
Folks paying $250 for sportered Lee Enfields are still getting a good deal regardless of how prices have jumped. I have seen dozens of "factory" Lee Enfield sporters on the EE in the last year going for around $300 a pop. That is a super price for a high quality, rugged hunting rifle that is accurate and works EVERY TIME. I think with the bubba sporters creeping up in price you would be crazy not to buy a PARKER HALE, CHURCHILL, WHITWORTH or other factory English sporter for $50-$100 more. In my opinion these rifles are one of the greatest bargains around in used rifles.
Arloashean
CGN Regular
- Location
- People's Republic of Toronto
Mauser sporters seem to be moving up fast too... From the basic cut-down 98s to the commercial ones. Swedes and other Mausers too. Must be paralleling the Enfield desporterizing movement? Or the huge increase in military Mausers?
.
Well, I guess I will put my two cents worth in on this one. First of all, there is a big difference in QUALITY between the Parker Hale, Churchill, Sussex and other Factory or Gunsmith converted Lee Enfields. This also includes Gunsmith conversions, such as those done by Elwood Epps and others. Even on these rifles, the amount of work, stock wood, and finish will vary from the plain-Jane made for the Hardware Stores type of rifle with a minimum of conversion effort, to those Monte Carlo stocked rifles with some great pieces of wood on them, sights changed, blued, and polished up.
On the other hand, we have those rifles converted in "Bubba's Basement of Horrors", which range to fairly nicely done sporters that could rival the Factory ones, to those where the stock has been cut with a hacksaw, --------without taking the barreled action out of it, thus leaving a silver decorative saw cut on the bottom and sides of the barrel.
However, there is one Dealer here that gives an honest and conservative opinion of his offerings. I recently ordered a rifle that had a "rusty" description of the bore, but with a little work, the bore of this one turned out to be quite acceptable and shootable. Right now, it will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with Factory ammunition and a good reload should better that.
Condition is also speculative, depending upon whether you are a Buyer or a Seller. I have seen "pretty good" bores as described, that look like a family of Gophers have taken up residence in, "slightly used" stocks that have large gouges out of the wood, and "good for the age" barrels where the blue has turned to a fine reddish brown. I have bought a few, based on the Seller's description that have turned out to be "disappointing", to say the least. I have also bought some where the Seller has given a full, honest and complete description of the rifle's condition, and I think you can surmise which Seller I will deal with again or recommend.
The Recreational Firearms Community is a relatively small one, and your reputation is everything on it. Word gets around fast. We have lots of great Members who are interested in collecting, restoring and shooting the Milsurp firearms. We also have a lot of them, and seemingly more each week, that use these Forums as a type of E-Bay for their goods, and are more interested in selling stuff than helping to contribute to the Hobby. You know the ones, --- they have 17 Posts, and 247 Trader Ratings. And usually these Posts are in the form of "What is this Gun worth?, and is followed a week later by the appearance of the rifle on the EE at the highest quoted price.
The Internet is also a contributing factor. A person can look up a certain rifle and find out what it brought at a Gun Auction, or is valued at other sources. The Auction prices tend to be crazy, as all you need is two idiots with a sack full of cash, and neither of them want the other person to get the item. They overbid, then try to add more to the item, and sell it online. These people generally have no clue as to the real value of the item, and while the Internet might give a value rangeing from $200 to $500, the higher prices quoted are generally for the scarce models or variations of the rifle. Take for example, a Wartime built Number 4 rifle, an early Long Branch Number 4 Mark 1 with the round cocking knob, a Long Branch Number 4 Mark 1*, and a later Irish Contract Number 4 Lee Enfield still wrapped in paper and Cosmoline. They all look basically the SAME, but when you look at the markings there is a big difference in value. However, the person who does not know this only looks at the prices on them, and which price is he more likely to ask -- higher or lower?
But the OP is right. It seems like the asking prices have skyrocketed in the last 6 months or so. Those $100 to $125 rifles seem to magically appreciated into the $200 range. I guess one way of measuring whether it sells for the higher prices is to see how many BTT (Back to the Top) posts are made before the Seller gets the idea that the firearm is overpriced.
Well, I guess I will put my two cents worth in on this one. First of all, there is a big difference in QUALITY between the Parker Hale, Churchill, Sussex and other Factory or Gunsmith converted Lee Enfields. This also includes Gunsmith conversions, such as those done by Elwood Epps and others. Even on these rifles, the amount of work, stock wood, and finish will vary from the plain-Jane made for the Hardware Stores type of rifle with a minimum of conversion effort, to those Monte Carlo stocked rifles with some great pieces of wood on them, sights changed, blued, and polished up.
On the other hand, we have those rifles converted in "Bubba's Basement of Horrors", which range to fairly nicely done sporters that could rival the Factory ones, to those where the stock has been cut with a hacksaw, --------without taking the barreled action out of it, thus leaving a silver decorative saw cut on the bottom and sides of the barrel.
However, there is one Dealer here that gives an honest and conservative opinion of his offerings. I recently ordered a rifle that had a "rusty" description of the bore, but with a little work, the bore of this one turned out to be quite acceptable and shootable. Right now, it will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with Factory ammunition and a good reload should better that.
Condition is also speculative, depending upon whether you are a Buyer or a Seller. I have seen "pretty good" bores as described, that look like a family of Gophers have taken up residence in, "slightly used" stocks that have large gouges out of the wood, and "good for the age" barrels where the blue has turned to a fine reddish brown. I have bought a few, based on the Seller's description that have turned out to be "disappointing", to say the least. I have also bought some where the Seller has given a full, honest and complete description of the rifle's condition, and I think you can surmise which Seller I will deal with again or recommend.
The Recreational Firearms Community is a relatively small one, and your reputation is everything on it. Word gets around fast. We have lots of great Members who are interested in collecting, restoring and shooting the Milsurp firearms. We also have a lot of them, and seemingly more each week, that use these Forums as a type of E-Bay for their goods, and are more interested in selling stuff than helping to contribute to the Hobby. You know the ones, --- they have 17 Posts, and 247 Trader Ratings. And usually these Posts are in the form of "What is this Gun worth?, and is followed a week later by the appearance of the rifle on the EE at the highest quoted price.
The Internet is also a contributing factor. A person can look up a certain rifle and find out what it brought at a Gun Auction, or is valued at other sources. The Auction prices tend to be crazy, as all you need is two idiots with a sack full of cash, and neither of them want the other person to get the item. They overbid, then try to add more to the item, and sell it online. These people generally have no clue as to the real value of the item, and while the Internet might give a value rangeing from $200 to $500, the higher prices quoted are generally for the scarce models or variations of the rifle. Take for example, a Wartime built Number 4 rifle, an early Long Branch Number 4 Mark 1 with the round cocking knob, a Long Branch Number 4 Mark 1*, and a later Irish Contract Number 4 Lee Enfield still wrapped in paper and Cosmoline. They all look basically the SAME, but when you look at the markings there is a big difference in value. However, the person who does not know this only looks at the prices on them, and which price is he more likely to ask -- higher or lower?
But the OP is right. It seems like the asking prices have skyrocketed in the last 6 months or so. Those $100 to $125 rifles seem to magically appreciated into the $200 range. I guess one way of measuring whether it sells for the higher prices is to see how many BTT (Back to the Top) posts are made before the Seller gets the idea that the firearm is overpriced.
ChromeArty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Sunshine Coast (PR)
All excellent posts... so it isn't just me then...? 
