Oddball Chamberings for a target rifle? 338-06

[Ih8sks]

So here's the premise, just noticed that some IMR 4064 powder is available locally, and I started to look at what it could be used for. Doing a little digging and found it's basically good for everything. There's load data for this powder from 204 ruger all the way to 458 win mag and everything in between. One cartridge that caught my eye was the 338-06.

I had never heard of it before but it was intriguing to me as the list a range of loading's for it from 185 gr, to 250 grain. It wouldn't be a fast shooter by any means (especially in the higher weights). The notion came of whether it would be feasible to build a target rifle around this cartridge? I was thinking loading something like the Berger 250 grain OTM hybrid might make a nice stable round.

I've never been a "go with the flow" type of person so things like a 308 win, 6.5 creedmoor, (at least for a custom build) don't interest me. If I'm going to go oddball might as well go completely odd!

If this ever ends up being more than a pipe dream would probably build it off of a donor remington 700 30-06 action, or maybe a model 7?

The ammunition seems relatively easy to load for. It looks like you can use 30-06, 280 rem or 35 whelen cases as a parent.

Would be interested to hear what you think about a build like this? Has anyone here has ever gone down this rabbit hole and built something similar.

The more I think of it the more the idea of a non-magnum 338 bore rifle intrigues me.

 

[buji88]

I mean, anything is possible if you put the time and effort into it.

338-06 has been around, and with a decent barrel, trigger, and stock, why shouldn't it shoot?

I think the biggest issue is how far it can be effective. 338-06 is meant to be a shorter-range bush cartridge that packs a punch up close.

If you are looking to push the limits of distance, it likely wouldn't be a great choice, but for 1K yard and under, why not! It will just take time, experimenting, and some money. Enjoy it if you want to!

And wind might be tough with the speeds it operates at, but that's just part of it.

 

[Mystic Precision]

See if it suits the 275 Rigby

that might be an easier to use combo with LR potential.

Jerry

 

[Brutus]

One part of me wants to see experiments with this cartridge and Lapua or Berger bullets.
The other side of me says what the heck for!?
More recoil plus more trajectory?

too each his own......

Edit: has the ear marks of a good predator control rifle

 

[Potashminer]

OP, you have probably done the research.. In the Sierra V book, they show their Accuracy load with 250 grain bullets uses IMR 4064 powder in their 338-06 A-Square. I note they report 2,350 fps using 250 grain - both their SBT, and their HPBT MatchKing, from a 25" barrel. I have never had anything to do with one. I do load for a 24" Win Model 70 in 338 Win Mag, and straight forward enough to get solidly into 2,700's fps with 250 grain bullets (Sierra and Nosler) in that one.

 

[buji88]

Another thought on a standard bolt face is 280 AI, but it doesn't look like 4064 is a good candidate for it. But 7MM projectiles with the right twist and bullets could be a deadly combo!

 

[guntech]

For me I prefer to spend as little as possible on bullets and powder... so I would choose something like the 6mm BR and still be confident at 1000 yards...

How far away to you want your target? ... have you regular access at that distance? Got lots of money to waste on bullets?

 

[Ih8sks]

For me I prefer to spend as little as possible on bullets and powder... so I would choose something like the 6mm BR and still be confident at 1000 yards...

How far away to you want your target? ... have you regular access at that distance? Got lots of money to waste on bullets?

Living in Southern Ontario, regularly only get the chance to easily get to 300m's, every once in a while might have the opportunity to go to Base borden for 800-1000yds, but not something I would rely on. Not a lot of time to go out so much, if I get out 5 times a year it's lucky. So it's not a huge difference if it's $0.40, $0.80 or $2.00 per round for that little of a volume. If I had the opportunity to shoot more often I might be looking at something easier to load, like a 6.5 x 55 or a 284 win.

See if it suits the 275 Rigby

that might be an easier to use combo with LR potential.

Jerry

Looks like an interesting round, it's not listed as one of the rounds for the IMR 4064 (surprisingly since almost everything else seems to be on it!). I'm not stuck on the powder so much, I just noticed that it was around and looking into what it could be used with and was surprised to see how versatile it was. Like I said initially this is almost just a thinking out loud idea, about something way out of the box.

 

[Ih8sks]

Another thought on a standard bolt face is 280 AI, but it doesn't look like 4064 is a good candidate for it. But 7MM projectiles with the right twist and bullets could be a deadly combo!

IMR lists this recipe for the 4064 and the 280 AI:

Case:Nosler Twist:1:9.000" Primer:Winchester LR, Large Rifle Barrel Length:24.000" Trim Length:2.530"

BULLET WEIGHT 168 GR. SIE HPBT

STARTING LOAD / MAXIMUM LOADS
MANUFACTURER POWDER BULLET DIAM. C.O.L GRS. VEL. (FT/S) PRESSURE GRS. VEL. (FT/S) PRESSURE
IMR IMR 4064 0.284" 3.330" 42.3 2,532 55,900 PSI 45.0 2,643 62,300 PSI

 

[Ih8sks]

One part of me wants to see experiments with this cartridge and Lapua or Berger bullets.
The other side of me says what the heck for!?
More recoil plus more trajectory?

too each his own......

Edit: has the ear marks of a good predator control rifle

I was actually thinking about the less recoil and lighter weight of the rifle compared to the other 338 chamberings out there like the lapua magnum and the Win mag.

I think it would make a nice thumper for hunting as well especially at the ranges in Southern Ontario. Would hit a moose pretty hard at ranges of 300yds or less compared to using a magnum caliber.

 

[tiriaq]

Study the ballistic tables. Look at the long range performance with velocities that would be reasonable.
How does the performance compare with other bullets in other calibers?

 

[Potashminer]

Good advice to the OP in Post #11. An acquaintance got all carried away dreaming about a 338 EDGE build - but now uses 142 grain (?) 6.5 mm bullets to ring gongs easily out to 1,000 yards. If you are not trying to kill game - not needing the post-contact bullet performance, but instead just needing the pre-contact performance, then often can get to same place with much smaller diameter, much less recoil, etc. There is a reason that the military guys went with the Lapua's, the Cheytac's and the BMG's, and I do not think it was only about "pre-contact" bullet performance...

 

[Mystic Precision]

If you are going to a military base, you should consider what chamberings are allowed to be used there.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a hot rodded 308 win for 1000yds work.... actually works at 1 mile really well too.

Jerry

 

[dan belisle]

Living in Southern Ontario, regularly only get the chance to easily get to 300m's, every once in a while might have the opportunity to go to Base borden for 800-1000yds, but not something I would rely on. Not a lot of time to go out so much, if I get out 5 times a year it's lucky. So it's not a huge difference if it's $0.40, $0.80 or $2.00 per round for that little of a volume. If I had the opportunity to shoot more often I might be looking at something easier to load, like a 6.5 x 55 or a 284 win.



Looks like an interesting round, it's not listed as one of the rounds for the IMR 4064 (surprisingly since almost everything else seems to be on it!). I'm not stuck on the powder so much, I just noticed that it was around and looking into what it could be used with and was surprised to see how versatile it was. Like I said initially this is almost just a thinking out loud idea, about something way out of the box.

Might be listed as the 7x57 Mauser, its less romantic name. - dan

 

[RifleDude]

If you are going to a military base, you should consider what chamberings are allowed to be used there.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a hot rodded 308 win for 1000yds work.... actually works at 1 mile really well too.

Jerry

Jerry has a good point. CFB Borden's approved cartridge list (revision 1 Apr 19) does not show the 338-06 as an approved cartridge. So, your call whether it's worth pursuing this.

 

[ruby76]

Go for it! There's great choices in 338 cal high BC bullets such as the 250 Berger that you mentioned. There are improved variants of the 338/06 that gain some powder capacity and case design benefits such as the 338/06 Ackley improved and 338 Sherman (which is based off a 270/280 win case to maximize potential). Keep in mind you will need the proper twist barrel and magazine space to properly use those bullets so they are not seated too deep in the case.

 

[Ih8sks]

If you are going to a military base, you should consider what chamberings are allowed to be used there.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a hot rodded 308 win for 1000yds work.... actually works at 1 mile really well too.

Jerry

Never considered that! I figured as long as it wasn't a caliber that was in the Federal governments "penalty box" it would be okay. Something to consider definitely

Might be listed as the 7x57 Mauser, its less romantic name. - dan

Yes Sir, that's the listing, another interesting road to go down...

Go for it! There's great choices in 338 cal high BC bullets such as the 250 Berger that you mentioned. There are improved variants of the 338/06 that gain some powder capacity and case design benefits such as the 338/06 Ackley improved and 338 Sherman (which is based off a 270/280 win case to maximize potential). Keep in mind you will need the proper twist barrel and magazine space to properly use those bullets so they are not seated too deep in the case.

I've found JC custom lists 338 barrels in a couple of different twists, was thinking 1:9.5 twist, with either a light Palma profile, or a Sendero profile, in the 25" to 26" range. I don't know if anyone here has experience with his work (don't want to step on anyone's toes).
I've seen the 338-06 A Square chamber, which has SAAMI spec, but didn't want to go with a belted cartridge.

I don't mind having a single load system actually with this type of build, so not really concerned about it fitting into a specific magazine.


Thanks for all the feedback and ideas, I really appreciate the education.

 

[Potashminer]

...

I've found JC custom lists 338 barrels in a couple of different twists, was thinking 1:9.5 twist, with either a light Palma profile, or a Sendero profile, in the 25" to 26" range. I don't know if anyone here has experience with his work (don't want to step on anyone's toes).

I've seen the 338-06 A Square chamber, which has SAAMI spec, but didn't want to go with a belted cartridge.
....

My Nosler 9 manual say the .338-06 A-Square "consists simply of sizing a standard 30-06 case over a tapered expander ball" - Nosler 9, p. 610. So the case is not a belted case...

Not sure about a SAAMI drawing - this cartridge not listed in ANSI Standard: SAAMI Z299.4 - 2015. Found a web reference that A-Square is now defunct - closed its doors in 2012. So perhaps there is no current SAAMI drawing for it??? It is possible that you may have seen a drawing for the .338 A-Square, which apparently was a bigger belted case, based on the 378 Weatherby, but with straight 35 degree, not radiused, shoulders, I think??

 

[crowellsr]

JC custom makes very good barrels and can make things not necessarily listed on his site. I just had a 6mmBR barrel made by him to fit a Tikka action and it has been a tack driver even during initial load development

 

[Ih8sks]

My Nosler 9 manual say the .338-06 A-Square "consists simply of sizing a standard 30-06 case over a tapered expander ball" - Nosler 9, p. 610. So the case is not a belted case...

Not sure about a SAAMI drawing - this cartridge not listed in ANSI Standard: SAAMI Z299.4 - 2015. Found a web reference that A-Square is now defunct - closed its doors in 2012. So perhaps there is no current SAAMI drawing for it??? It is possible that you may have seen a drawing for the .338 A-Square, which apparently was a bigger belted case, based on the 378 Weatherby, but with straight 35 degree, not radiused, shoulders, I think??

Thanks Potashminer! I must have been mixing up those two loadings when I was doing my deep dive into the world of oddball .338 chamberings. Didn't think there was so many .338 variants out there.