off hand accuracy?

rally guy

rally guy

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I was at the range the other day shooting my can am gong and it got me thinking, what kind of accuracy are you guy's getting off hand? What distance are would you be comfortable shooting a 8" gong unsupported? I found myself having a hard time to connect consistently at 100" with my dd, bf m14 and rfb.

Does anyone have tips and tricks on how to get better at of hand accuracy? I do go to the gym and train my cardio , shoulders and the rest of my body but I still get tired and burning arms.
 
Depends a lot on the accuracy of your rifle/ammo combo, but the biggest by far is your own consistancy with the release of a shot. If your gun/ammo is a realistic 4-5" and your standing unsupported is good for at worst 4moa, then you are around 8"-9" respectively. If nothing in that equation changes except the consistancy of the shot to say at worst 10moa, that shot dispersion climbs to 14"-15".

What I do:
I find dry firing very valuable as is actual trigger time with air guns or .22s.
Work on that with comfortable positioning that is also consistant.
Also, don't try and hold the sights into a position on the target, but rather work with the natural movement of the sights and refine holding and breaking the shot when your 'on'.
 
Standing? I you manage to hit all in 8" that is not bad at all. Try to rest your support hand elbow on your rib cage. Put your weight on your rear leg. Your feets can stay wider as the wind can push you from left to right and the opposite. Try to eliminate that 8 figure your are doing in your POA/sight picture. Try to keep your barrel mouvement up and down as you breath. Then release the shot as it goes back on target on as you expel and hold your breathing.
Remember to take that shot as your POA is at the desired POI! Sounds stupid but lot's of people rush a shot because they think they will or where near that bull...
Prep the trigger and don't jerk it like you are afraid that the barrel will past the desired POI. If it does. Wait and start again. Shoot 5 rounds strings. Relax. Get back there.

cheers.
 
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The secret to positional shooting is learning to shoot inside 25m so you can see where each round hits (I can see each bullet hole with my 3.4x ELCAN).
I shoot at 1" patches at 25m and figure if I can hold the patch at 25m I am doing better than 4" at 100m. Then I put up .5" patches and figure if I can hold them I can shoot inside 2" at 100m. You are teaching your brain to subconsciously break the trigger when your sights are on target (that said if your principles of marksmanship suck you are going to struggle). Your job is not to force the sights to remain fixed on the target but to break the trigger when the sights align with the target.

It seems like a waste at that close range but if you can't group well and hold the target up close it is only going to get worse as you move back.
 
I've often been frustrated by the same thing. It's not like in the movies eh!

If I want to make a confident 100yrd shot at say a paper plate sized gong, there a couple of things that I want to have lined up first:
1) rifle needs to be zeroed in a bench to make sure the bullet is going where you want it too. 2) be rested (eyes and muscles) 3) breathing is calm. 4) nice trigger pull at the nature pause in my breathing cycle.

I haven't yet decided which I prefer for off-hand - the tradition military bladed stance with elbow up position vs. having my support arm's elbow resting against my rib cage.

One trick that I picked up watching a U.S. Army rifle video (link is in the M14 forum) is to make sure that your elbow is directly under you support hand and the rifle. I find this helps a lot.

Lastly, I find that I shoot off-hand with much greater ease with a light rifle than a heavy rifle. How do you find the RFB for off-hand shooting?
 
Gunnerlove said:
The secret to positional shooting is learning to shoot inside 25m so you can see where each round hits (I can see each bullet hole with my 3.4x ELCAN).
I shoot at 1" patches at 25m and figure if I can hold the patch at 25m I am doing better than 4" at 100m. Then I put up .5" patches and figure if I can hold them I can shoot inside 2" at 100m. You are teaching your brain to subconsciously break the trigger when your sights are on target (that said if your principles of marksmanship suck you are going to struggle). Your job is not to force the sights to remain fixed on the target but to break the trigger when the sights align with the target.

It seems like a waste at that close range but if you can't group well and hold the target up close it is only going to get worse as you move back.
Click to expand...

+ that! ;)
 
Cpt.Flan said:
+ that! ;)
Click to expand...

I have trained a number of CAFSAC and NSCC tyros over the last few years (and won a fair bit of bling). I believe without a doubt that people will learn more from a skilled coach and 1000 rnds than burning through a truck load of ammo left to their own devices. The sad thing is that the military, DCRA and PRAs have for the most part lost their ability to teach people to shoot well.
 
Gunnerlove said:
I have trained a number of CAFSAC and NSCC tyros over the last few years (and won a fair bit of bling). I believe without a doubt that people will learn more from a skilled coach and 1000 rnds than burning through a truck load of ammo left to their own devices. The sad thing is that the military, DCRA and PRAs have for the most part lost their ability to teach people to shoot well.
Click to expand...

I completely agree! I learned more in 2 weeks with the right people in a shooting training camp then by myself the rest of that year.
I shot next to you on the QMM.. finished in 8th position that day ( QMM stage 2 match 15 ). ;) See you in Bisley.
 
yep not like the movies at all, hitting a 12 inch gong at 200 yards is pretty damn hard for me. Surprisingly I do a whole lot better at hitting it with my cz858 and my 30-30 than with my ar, still not sure why. Im at my worst with my ar and my tavor, but hey its a 200 yard shot unsupported, the sights dance a lot at that distance.
 
Not sure how you've got your AR dressed up vs your CZ but it could be a weight issue. It could be the trigger as well. I owned a CSA and found the trigger to be truely fantastic as well as the balance.
 
I had my M305 out last week for the first time. At 25 yards with some hasty off hand shooting I was grouping around 2". That in theory translates to 8" at 100 yards. I have a Lead Sled on the way which will help to identify what is me and what is the gun.
I consider myself to be terrible with open sights, no great focus on the front sight, to get it better I have to cheek weld further back on the stock which is not very comfortable.
I think more trigger time will help, and dry firing is a good cheap way to improve.
 
The rfb is great, I will say I am really happy with the ammo rifle combo wen talking about accuracy/price I find the 50 cent norc ammo will give me 2-3 moa in my rfb and bf socom 18.

Because of the bullpup nature of the rfb I find it easier to shoot off hand then my dd m4v5 ar.

Tikka223 said:
I've often been frustrated by the same thing. It's not like in the movies eh!

If I want to make a confident 100yrd shot at say a paper plate sized gong, there a couple of things that I want to have lined up first:
1) rifle needs to be zeroed in a bench to make sure the bullet is going where you want it too. 2) be rested (eyes and muscles) 3) breathing is calm. 4) nice trigger pull at the nature pause in my breathing cycle.

I haven't yet decided which I prefer for off-hand - the tradition military bladed stance with elbow up position vs. having my support arm's elbow resting against my rib cage.

One trick that I picked up watching a U.S. Army rifle video (link is in the M14 forum) is to make sure that your elbow is directly under you support hand and the rifle. I find this helps a lot.

Lastly, I find that I shoot off-hand with much greater ease with a light rifle than a heavy rifle. How do you find the RFB for off-hand shooting?
Click to expand...
 
beltfed said:
Depends a lot on the accuracy of your rifle/ammo combo, but the biggest by far is your own consistancy with the release of a shot. If your gun/ammo is a realistic 4-5" and your standing unsupported is good for at worst 4moa, then you are around 8"-9" respectively. If nothing in that equation changes except the consistancy of the shot to say at worst 10moa, that shot dispersion climbs to 14"-15".

What I do:
I find dry firing very valuable as is actual trigger time with air guns or .22s.
Work on that with comfortable positioning that is also consistant.
Also, don't try and hold the sights into a position on the target, but rather work with the natural movement of the sights and refine holding and breaking the shot when your 'on'.
Click to expand...
Thank all of you for the great tips. My goal for my rfb are being able to shoot 8" steel standing up at 100 yards and 300-500 with a rest. My m14 its 300-500 yard with a rest 100 standing and 300 rested for my ar. But I want to do that with my norc ammo and Winchester wihte box for my ar.
 
Great thread, nothing more humbling than off-hand shooting! We have a 12-14" gong at 200m and I have a helluva time connecting.
 
Tikka223 said:
Not sure how you've got your AR dressed up vs your CZ but it could be a weight issue. It could be the trigger as well. I owned a CSA and found the trigger to be truely fantastic as well as the balance.
Click to expand...

I have a colt 6920 with a noveske nsr, with an Aimpoint micro t1 and an Eotech G33 magnifier.

I`m going to try again with just the Aimpoint without the magnifier attached, that should trim the weight down a bit and I`ll lay off the coffee on that day.
 
Sounds like you need upper body toning. Cardio isn't that. Upper body toning is about your back and shoulders more than your arms, but if you have spaghetti arms and weak shoulders, go lift some weights. Doesn't have to be really heavy weights though.
There are techniques for shooting off hand that can vary according to the rifle too. Operative word being 'can'. Starting with not having your arms out like you're trying to fly.
An M305(that is not an M-14) with the synthetic stock is held differently than one with a wood stock. It's about the weight and balance. The wide front sight doesn't help hitting an 8" target either. A scope will let you see how much you're wavering on and off target, but will also alter the balance.
 
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