Old Enfield war rifle found at the cottage

PaintballGuy

PaintballGuy

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Hey guys,

My buddy called me last weekend and said that he found an old gun up at his cottage while doing some spring cleaning up there. I asked him to snap a pic of it and text it to me so I could tell him what it was. I was wondering if anyone here would be able to confirm a few things before we go shoot it at the range since I'm not 100% up on Enfields and the old markings.

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From what I can tell, and yes I have it at my house for safe keeping, its a sporterized mk4 with an added peep sight and front sight. Unfortunately I don't have a good enough camera to take shots of the markings on the rifle, so I'll do my best to describe them:

-On the barrel it says "surrey"
-On the side of the bolt it reads " N 3H 35"
-On the left hand side of the mechanism, it has very worn markings which read (from what I can make out in the light) " F(FTR)40

-On the left hand side of the chamber there is an odd marking which is very worn, looks kinda like a hammer and sickle(though I doubt that's what it is), but its very well worn, definitely not a crown though.


The story behind this rifle from what he told me after he dug out his grandpas info was that he fought in the korean war, this was the rifle he used, he then exported it back to Canada (in its current customized state).

What I'd like to know for sure firstly is:

-Is this 100% chambered for .303, I don't shoot a gun till I know for sure and having no ammo markings scare me. The Export card says its .303, but I'm not gonna go just on that. I think most Enfields during ww1 and 2 were standardized with .303, but again, not takin a chance :D

-Were rifles in its current customized state ever used on the battlefield, or was this done before he shipped it home

If someone could help me out with this info that would just be fantastic!

Thanks!
 
I know the FTR means factory through repair.

Look at the metal part where the butt/forstock is attached to...any markings there?
 
"Surrey" was a name applied to rifles commercially sporterized in England, well after the Korean War had ended.
Its an interesting story about it being used in, and brought back from Korea, but that is very unlikely. UK troops in Korea did use No. 4 rifles. The rifle may have seen service in Korea, may have been returned to the UK, and was subsequently sold off as surplus and sporterized. Or it may have been placed in storage after it went through FTR post WW2, until it ws sold off. Or, it could have been surplussed from any one of a number of countries which received arms from the UK.
It was a No. 4 Mk. I rifle when orignally made.
Its rear sight mounting lugs were cut off, likely when the Williams peep sight was added. The Williams sight was added after it was commercially sported, they did not come from England like that.
Unless altered, it is .303 British caliber.
What is an "Export card"?
FRT is "Factory Thorough Repair", "F" is for Fazakerley, the factory where the FTR was done. 1940 is impossible as a date for a No. 4 FTR at Fazakerley. 1948 would be a possibility. Any later than that, and the rifle would have been FTR'd as a Mk. 1/2, not as a Mk. 1.
Incidentally, the trigger guard is Canadian.
 
What a great find! Clean, preserve, and hopefully it'll be fire-able.

You'll want to see if the bolt serial number matches the receiver - it's not critical, but if they match, there's a better chance the "headspace" will be within an acceptable range. Headspace is checked by a gunsmith or yourself, by using special cartridge-shaped guages (Check Forster Products, under "headspace gages"). They're available in Canada too (search the Forums). A .303 set will have the standard .303, and larger sizes, out to a maximum - if your chamber is larger than that, it may be unsafe to fire.

For that matter, you may want to have the entire barrel, receiver, trigger assy checked over by a gunsmith, but from the picture above, it looks well-stored out of the weather, so might be in great shape.

I love to see these LEs found and preserved - should last another 60 years or longer!
 
Calibre is .303 BRITISH. Knew a guy once who got a real good deal on 300 rounds of .303 SAVAGE, shot it in his Lee-Enfield for the next 20 years, never did get a Moose! Don't follow his 'example'!

Built for World War Two, rebuilt by the Army, likely for Korea, surplussed after that one became history. It's likely not the ACTUAL rifle that your friend's relative used, but it IS a twin for it. Or. at least, it started off that way.

Conversion work was done nicely and it was checked-over completely (and that includes headspace and trigger mechanism) before it was sold. I rather think that if nobody was madly swapping parts back and forth, likely it is perfectly safe to shoot 'as-is'.

Williams made/makes really decent aperture sights, capable of much finer adjustment than the original battlesights. They are expensive to buy. Whoever had them put onto this critter knew what he was doing and wanted the best iron sight he could get. And why no scope? Because back in the 1960s, people knew that if you dropped the thing, you ruined the scope.... and that meant that you didn't eat the Moose that you didn't hit. So they used iron sights.

This critter should be nice and accurate and should give your friend and his grandchildren another century or so of good shooting.

Nice find.
 
Long Branch rifle made in Canada. Those markings on the left side of the action may have been ground off when it was overhauled/sporterized in the UK.

With the backsight pivot hacked off like that it has very little value, although it could be reworked into a decent sporter by finishing the job so it looks like an EAL for example.

Not worth having it done though.

Good truck/cabin rifle now: it will do the job and if you drop it in the lake or drive over it, nothing to cry about.
 
IF it is a Long Branch rifle, it was made in 1941, being a Mk. I, not Mk. I*. If the serial number is original, it will have a "L" in it, XL###X, if made in Canada. The stamped Cdn. trigger guard was not being made when Mk. I rifles were in production at Long Branch, so it is not original to the rifle. May have been part of the FTR.
The magazine is from a No.I Mk. III rifle. Definitely not part of the FTR.
That is a Williams 5D rear sight, so called because it was introduced at $5. Loosen clamp screw, push sight, tighten clampscrew.
 
You're right Tiriaq, it's probably not a Long Branch after all. The Long Branch MkIs had a concave shoulder on the left side of the receiver. The flat shoulder this looks to have didn't come in until 1944 IIRC. The front of the charger guide was also well rounded on the Long Branch MkIs to save the soldier's thumb as he charged the mag.

I can't remember which of the UK factories used that flat bevelled shoulder on the left side of the receiver on MkI rifles like this one. It was used on the Fazackerly Mk2s made post-war of course, but this isn't one of them. Perhaps it was introduced on later MkIs.
 
Yes, please do reduce the size of your photos before uploading them here. I can't believe that something can't be built into this site to block anyone attempting to load photos of that size. All cameras can be set properly to take photos sized for the internet and software is also common which can reduce the size. I realize you probably don't do this very often but you can go back and delete those photos and replace them with smaller ones. Rifle is one of thousands which were sported and sold. They are usually very good shooters.
 
Oh wow! thanks for all the help guys!
Lots of awesome info about it that's really interesting.

Ok so just to answer and verify some things; Firstly my friend and I went to the local gunsmith I go to and verified that it was in fact chambered for .303. He said that it is extremely rare for a rifle this old to have been re chambered since .303 was the most economical round in the British empire. But regardless, he cycled 4 or 5 different similar calibers and .303 was the one that fit flawlessly.

He even commented as well about the Williams sight, lol. Said that the guy must have knew his sights and was a clean freak cuz the gun was in the best mechanical condition hes come across in a long time :D

In regards to the Export card that we found on the case, this is what it reads:

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Based on this, it looks like it was customized in Europe then brought to Canada later. Whatcha guys think?

Also here's some questions I have and answers for those who were wondering:

-The serial no. on the gun is just numeric, no L or anything else
-What year was this gun made? I know there's been some disagreements, but after FTR, isn't the number that follows represent the date it was made/worked on?

-Apparently his whole family has never known him( the Korean war vet) to hunt. When they found the gun up at the cottage (last weekend) as far as they knew it hasn't been touched since the 50's. I believe it, cuz the soft case and gun tin case it was in smelled like mothballs and was berried under 2X4's that were there since the cottage was made.

- As for the registration, we're looking that up this week. But I believe it was registered to him at one point, but since it was stashed for so long who knows if the records still have it on file. I've now successfully convinced my buddy to get his PAL, so he can keep the rifle in family :D So until then we're not putting any rounds through it. Not quite sure if the Amnesty program is still open or is needed for this situation, but I'll figure it out I'm sure.
 
The "Export card" is just a Y38 that Canadians use to identify expensive items that they take out of Canada temporarily so as not to risk having to pay taxes and duty on thier return to Canada. Almost anything with a serial number can be put on them.
 
The rifle is one of thousands commercially sported in England and imported into Canada for retail sale.
The number following the FTR mark is the date of the rework. The serial is likely one applied when the rifle was sporterized.
Registration of longarms hasn't been in effect all that long. If the rifle has been tucked away for years, it is likely the rifle is unregistered.
 
Dantforth said:
Yes, please do reduce the size of your photos before uploading them here. I can't believe that something can't be built into this site to block anyone attempting to load photos of that size. All cameras can be set properly to take photos sized for the internet and software is also common which can reduce the size. I realize you probably don't do this very often but you can go back and delete those photos and replace them with smaller ones. Rifle is one of thousands which were sported and sold. They are usually very good shooters.
Click to expand...

There is a plug in for this board software that automatically reduces the size of images - and you can still click the image to see the full size.
 
Start>All Programs>Accessories>Paint>File>Open>(select image file)>Open>Image>Stretch & Skew>Horizontal (usually 40%-50%)>Tab>Vertical (the same amount)>OK>File>Save (if size looks right)

There, you're done.
 
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