Old shotgun choke designations

Melvin

Melvin

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All other thing being equal will a 1950's vintage shotgun throw the same size pattern as a 1990's shotgun with the same choke designation? That is, has any adjustment been made in chokes, more recently, to account for a plastic shot collars versus pre shot collar choked guns. Would I expect to buy an older gun choked ic/mod to pattern similarly to a new gun marked ic/mod when using most modern shotshells?

P.S. did I mention I like controversy.
 
I don't think there is a difference, but keep in mind every gun patterns different with different ammo. Also you shouldn't shoot steel through an antique gun either...
 
brybenn said:
I find old fixed chokes to pattern better than new screw in choked guns more often than not.
Click to expand...

I concur. Today, many brands offer Back Bored barrels (one example - Browning) aimed at improving shot patterns among other things. However, with smoothbore shotguns, as the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding i.e. what shows up on the patterning board given a specific choke/load combo.
 
Depends .... my experience has been that many older fixed "full" choke guns were a lot tighter than current full chokes. I've checked a number of older barrels that were well over .040 of constriction. Most consider .030 to .035 to be full now.

Many factory supplied choke tubes that I have checked are unreliable for constriction as marked.
 
Concur with Beretta687EELL .

And yes, the boring, time consuming drudgery of the pattern board is the only real way to tell.
Dimensions & the BS from manufacturers, particularly after market choke manufacturers are one thing, but the proof on paper is definitive.

I too have measured the chokes on many older firearms and found "Full" to be more than .040 with a bore mike. Patterns were often much
improved ( tighter ) by reaming and polishing several thou out. Perhaps today's cartridges with plastic hulls, better sealing plastic wads & protective shot cups and fold crimps rather than top wads perform much better than the older style papers/fibre & card wads and roll crimps ... not needing as much constriction. On the other hand, I've seen some pretty impressive patterns from a 1920's vintage single barrel trap gun & modern Federal papers.

Just when you think you can apply a "rule of thumb" to shotguns, chokes and ammunition, someone will turn up the facts to disprove it. The individual barrel/boring/choke/ammo combination on paper at a particular yardage is quite indicative, the same combination from a different gun with the supposedly the same combination will often vary ... maybe often not greatly, but it will
 
I found that a lot of older full chokes are a lot longer or start deeper in the barrel then the new screw in chokes.we shot a ton of turkey shoots and would check the chokes with a dime some would stop the dime three to four inches back from the muzzle. The longer the choke the better thy pattern ..Dutch
 
beretta boy said:
Concur with Beretta687EELL .

And yes, the boring, time consuming drudgery of the pattern board is the only real way to tell.
Dimensions & the BS from manufacturers, particularly after market choke manufacturers are one thing, but the proof on paper is definitive.

I too have measured the chokes on many older firearms and found "Full" to be more than .040 with a bore mike. Patterns were often much
improved ( tighter ) by reaming and polishing several thou out. Perhaps today's cartridges with plastic hulls, better sealing plastic wads & protective shot cups and fold crimps rather than top wads perform much better than the older style papers/fibre & card wads and roll crimps ... not needing as much constriction. On the other hand, I've seen some pretty impressive patterns from a 1920's vintage single barrel trap gun & modern Federal papers.

Just when you think you can apply a "rule of thumb" to shotguns, chokes and ammunition, someone will turn up the facts to disprove it. The individual barrel/boring/choke/ammo combination on paper at a particular yardage is quite indicative, the same combination from a different gun with the supposedly the same combination will often vary ... maybe often not greatly, but it will
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up
Cheers
 
That was my thinking, that older actually regulated by shooting and adjusting the chokes type guns were done with fibre wads and no plastic shot collar. Therefore the measured choke for full of an older gun may be more than a modern factory or screw in choke gun marked full choke that has been just bored to an approximate set amount that has been determined as compatible with modern shot shells. Or is it that full choke was considered so many thousanths by convention in 1950 and the same amount is used today?

Part of the reason I ask is that have recently come into possession of a second A&F Webley and Scott 16 gauge. Both were made in 1957 and marketed as ic/mod. They are four serial numbers apart. My first one looks to have been used for most of its 59 years and the second one is as new. They both pattern a bit on the tight side. As I do no have a personal Gillie or Loader for driven shoots, I decided to change one of the pair. So a decision was made to turn one into a closer quarters grouse gun. The issue was how much to open up the chokes based on their original amount and what skeet one and light modified "should" be. Without having the luxury of honing shooting, honing shooting, etc we picked .003 and .009. In part by conventional numbers and by going a half point down in each barrel from where they were already. The pattern sheets will tell when the weather cooperates. Both guns came out of the U.S. so shooting before buying was not an option. My friend in the U.S. took delivery and had shot it and had his very competent gunsmith open it up for me before importing it. So in the future if a person is looking at pre plastic shotshell guns, especially from U.K., when deciding if it might be close in pattern to what you want, do you assume that the designations will be on the tight side for modern loads? The logic being you can always open it up later but its hard to add choke short of going to thin wall screw-ins. Its hard to test a gun on the pattern board with different loads until you own it.
 
I don't like choke tubes. It harder to justify owning multiple guns in multiple gauges. Minimum 15 in SxS and 15 in O/U?
 
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