Ont regs: coyote during goose season, deer season...

[zebra26]

Every weekend in november I found myself sitting in a goose blind (corn field) in wma 65 waiting for the geese to come into the decoys. We saw a fair number of coyote during that time and wondered about a mixed hunt.
Seemed a no brainer to have a 223 or something else along for a mix bag. No big deal because its all the same small game permit.

Well not so fast.

Deer season is also open at the same time. I received this email today concerning the Ont Regs:

There is a year-round open hunting season for wolves and coyotes in Wildlife Management Unit (WMU) 65; there are no bag limits.
As per the Small Game Firearms information found in the 2012-2013 Hunting Regulations Summary (p. 79):
If you are hunting small game in an area where there is an open season for deer, moose, elk, or black bear, you may not possess or use a rifle of greater muzzle energy than 400 foot-pounds* or shells loaded with ball or with shot larger than No. 2 shot (or if using non-toxic shot, you may not use steel shot larger than triple BBB steel shot, or bismuth shot that is larger than double BB bismuth shot), unless you possess a valid licence to hunt deer, moose, elk or black bear as the case may be.
*(Equivalent to a .22 calibre rimfire rifle chambered to .22 short, .22 long or .22 long rifle cartridges.)
The hunting regulations summary may be accessed online at http://ontario.ca/hunting or picked up, free of charge, at most licence issuer locations.
Merry Christmas,
NRIC web reader - RB

Reads like I would also need the deer tag ($250 about for a non res) in order to have something else along (223, 22-250, or other) in the event of a yote happening along. I suppose the same would hold true if I was just out for yotes and deer season was open the same time? Either way its shotgun only for deer in the sector.

You figure or am I reading this wrong.

 

[mvarley84]

No, you read correctly. In order to possess a firearm with greater muzzle energy than 400, you need to have a big game tag for the particular species open at that time (except bear).

.22 inside of 100yds will kill a yote.

Keep in mind, when you go to shoot a yote, you are no longer waterfowl hunting, and the hunter orange regs would apply if u were hunting during a big game season (moose, deer, elk).

 

[gps]

unless you possess a valid licence to hunt deer, moose, elk or black bear as the case may be.

This is the part that confuses me, because your license to hunt deer would NOT be valid for centerfire rifle (your 223), because there is no rifle season in WMU65. If you were hunting coyote with a 223 during an open RIFLE season for deer, then you'd need to have a deer license also. Correct?

I would like to do the same in 73 right now because I'm tagged out, but am struggling to understand this also.

 

[zebra26]

The issue of hunters orange was discussed on another thread not long ago. This year the geese we moving almost on a schedule. In the morning about 7 to 10:30 am and in the afternoon it would start around 3pm until sunset. Nothing in between.
I was using the time in between in an orange vest on the prowl for small game.

Well in spite of corn, wheat, and soya fields there was very little small game. According to the locals its on account of the yotes and the reintroduction of the fisher.

Last reports, as of this am, most deer tracks are closely followed by yote tracks.

Now that i read the regs I realize I was in the wrong because I usually had some BB bismuth loads in my pocket in addition to the small game stuff.
Now about the orange, if one is just out for yote outside of deer or bear etc season then orange is not required? maybe it is because of small game?

 

[zebra26]

This is the part that confuses me, because your license to hunt deer would NOT be valid for centerfire rifle (your 223), because there is no rifle season in WMU65. If you were hunting coyote with a 223 during an open RIFLE season for deer, then you'd need to have a deer license also. Correct?

I would like to do the same in 73 right now because I'm tagged out, but am struggling to understand this also.

I just sent to the Ministry:
"I am confused about this regulation. There is currently an open deer season in WMA 65 but it is for bow only. According to the regulation I am not permitted a rifle for coyote because of the deer season. I’m not allowed to hunt deer at any time with a rifle in WMA 65. Does the regulation continue to apply in an area where shotgun, bow and black powder only are permitted for deer?"

 

[Waterfowler]

The issue of hunters orange was discussed on another thread not long ago. This year the geese we moving almost on a schedule. In the morning about 7 to 10:30 am and in the afternoon it would start around 3pm until sunset. Nothing in between.
I was using the time in between in an orange vest on the prowl for small game.

Well in spite of corn, wheat, and soya fields there was very little small game. According to the locals its on account of the yotes and the reintroduction of the fisher.

Last reports, as of this am, most deer tracks are closely followed by yote tracks.

Now that i read the regs I realize I was in the wrong because I usually had some BB bismuth loads in my pocket in addition to the small game stuff.
Now about the orange, if one is just out for yote outside of deer or bear etc season then orange is not required? maybe it is because of small game?

Where were fishers reintroduced.

 

[blasted_saber]

Where were fishers reintroduced.

MNR has not transplanted fishers anywhere. Its a myth.

 

[Jay]

Where were fishers reintroduced.

MNR has not transplanted fishers anywhere. Its a myth.

I took a picture of a fisher from one of my treestands this year while deer hunting in 65. I told the landowner, who proceeded to tell me that several years ago he noticed a strange truck near his property, so he asked them what they were up to.

He was told by the two guys in the truck that they were tracking collared fishers that were introduced to the area... I can't remember if he said they were MNR, I'll ask him next time I see him.

Cheers
Jay

 

[blasted_saber]

I took a picture of a fisher from one of my treestands this year while deer hunting in 65. I told the landowner, who proceeded to tell me that several years ago he noticed a strange truck near his property, so he asked them what they were up to.

He was told by the two guys in the truck that they were tracking collared fishers that were introduced to the area... I can't remember if he said they were MNR, I'll ask him next time I see him.

Cheers
Jay

They may very well have been tracking fishers. But they were likely students/working for a university. MNR, as we all know, drives white trucks with the ON logo in 99% of circumstances.

Think about it. MNR hardly has money to perform its core activities. Transplanting Fisher populations would be a huge expense for little return. EVERYTHING they reintroduce/transplant is done for economic reasons (license dollars).

EDIT - Just had a look at a map - 65 has always had a population of fishers. They were never extirpated from that area. Unless they were talking about "individuals" from another area. Fishers are very secretive. I live in an area with a very healthy population of them but can count on one hand how many live ones ive seen here in my whole life. I know they are here because my grandfather is a trapper and he traps quite a few every year.

 

[zebra26]

It was a local who told me about the fisher being reintroduced.
This is my first season in this area and I've seen 2 so far.
The last time I saw a fisher was about 30 years ago out around Lachute.

 

[blasted_saber]

It was a local who told me about the fisher being reintroduced.
This is my first season in this area and I've seen 2 so far.
The last time I saw a fisher was about 30 years ago out around Lachute.

Locals all around Canada know squat about a lot of things, or buy into the mythos.

I once had a local tell me he saw a cougar around these parts. I questioned him further. Well, he didnt quite see it. But he heard it. I asked him how he knew it was a cougar. "The sound it made!" he said. I asked him if he'd ever heard a real confirmed cougar to compare it to. "Well, no. But it was a cougar!"

Upon further review I see your from Quebec. I cant speak for that province but I can say 100% Ontario MNR has not transplanted fishers on a large scale basis. Could there have possibly been a couple individuals moved around a little bit? Sure. But I do know there have always been fishers in WMU 65. No need to reintroduce them as they never went anywhere. As I say, my area (WMU49) has a very healthy population, but the vast majority of people living here never ever see them. They are a very secretive animal.

 

[zebra26]

Locals all around Canada know squat about a lot of things, or buy into the mythos.

I once had a local tell me he saw a cougar around these parts. I questioned him further. Well, he didnt quite see it. But he heard it. I asked him how he knew it was a cougar. "The sound it made!" he said. I asked him if he'd ever heard a real confirmed cougar to compare it to. "Well, no. But it was a cougar!"

Upon further review I see your from Quebec. I cant speak for that province but I can say 100% Ontario MNR has not transplanted fishers on a large scale basis. Could there have possibly been a couple individuals moved around a little bit? Sure. But I do know there have always been fishers in WMU 65. No need to reintroduce them as they never went anywhere. As I say, my area (WMU49) has a very healthy population, but the vast majority of people living here never ever see them. They are a very secretive animal.

My interest in WMA 65 arises from the fact that this is now my primary hunting location. I am also not familiar with relocation programs in Quebec. I am curious however about your area WMA 49. As you state there is a healthy fisher population. What is the situation with coyote and small game? My stomping ground in 65 is all farming property. What about were you are in 49?

The coyote population in Quebec seems strongest in farming areas.

 

[Radiohead]

Hi Zebra26,

The key phrase here is "Hunting Regulations Summary". It's a summary and hence there are more details in the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act.
Have a look at the act at http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/regu/o-reg-665-98/latest/o-reg-665-98.html

77. (1) A person hunting small game, when in an area during an open season in the area for a species of big game, shall not possess or use,

(a) a rifle of greater muzzle energy than 400 foot-pounds; or

(b) shells loaded with ball or shot larger than number two shot. O. Reg. 49/11, s. 18.

(2) Despite clause (1) (b), a holder of a small game licence, when in an area during an open season in the area for a species of big game, may possess and use,

(a) in the case of shot made of steel, shot that is not larger than triple BBB steel shot; or

(b) in the case of shot made of bismuth, shot that is not larger than double BB bismuth shot. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 77 (2).

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a holder of a small game licence hunting in that part of Ontario lying south of the French and Mattawa rivers during an open season for deer that is restricted to the use of bows. O. Reg. 665/98, s. 77 (3).

Since WMU 65 is south of the French and Mattawa river, the 400 ft-lbs restriction doesn't applies during the deer bow season.

Have fun coyote hunting

 

[zebra26]

The last word on fisher reintroduction.

"There has never been an MNR relocation project for fishers in Ontario. Fisher populations have fluctuated in eastern Ontario since the 1800s due to harvest intensity and habitat availability. In 1944, fisher populations were low and since then reversion of abandoned agricultural areas back to forest has allowed for an increase in suitable fisher habitat. In the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, eastern Ontario experienced in influx of fishers. Extensive telemetry and genetics research on fishers in this area in 2003 revealed 3 neighbouring populations: the Adirondaks, Algonquin, and Gatineau. The bulk around here were surprisingly from the Adirondaks (St. Lawrence was thought to be a big barrier). There are a number of factors that may impact small game populations in eastern Ontario including predator abundance and lack of rainfall this summer.



Thank you for your inquiry,



Mary Garvey

A/ Management Biologist

Kemptville District"

 

[bandit86]

All these regulation of what isn't allowed is awfully confusing. Does anybody figured out what is allowed?

And what rifle is allowed that is under 400ft/lbs? A 22lr is 130, 160 for a high velocity, a 22magnum I saw was 300 ft/lbs, 17hmr just over 210