Ontario Changing Moose Hunting Season

Chas

Chas

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Well the province changed the 2015 moose regulations to only allowing two weeks for hunting calves and shortening the overall season starting in 2016. Click on the "Phase 1” link in the attached post to see the details...

http://news.ontario.ca/mnr/en/2015/04/ontario-changing-moose-hunting-season.html
 
Dorian Gray said:
Say this one coming a mile away. The "Consultation" the mnr did was just a formality.
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Yeah... like they "consulted" on the spring bear hunt... and then rat-faced fink's JS & MH took a payoff from RS... and canned it anyway, even though the feedback from the community AND their own biologists supported the hunt.
 
Everyone I spoke to who hunt moose say poulations are down and now the mnr actually did something and people are upset, :/

Only one friend said his area of moose populations are good... but he hunts so far up north I would take a plane to Thunder Bay and drive from there to cut down on the drive. Lol
 
Comment(s) Received on the Proposal: # 899
Public Consultation on the proposal for this decision was provided for 31 Days, from February 06, 2015 to March 09, 2015.
As a result of public consultation on the proposal, the Ministry received a total of 899 comments: 47 comments were received in writing and 852 were received online.
Additionally, a copy of all comments are available for public viewing by contacting the Contact person listed in this notice.
A selection of these comments are available:
#

Effect(s) of Consultation on this Decision:
Many comments received cited concerns about moose populations and identified a wide range of possible factors affecting moose. Commenters also indicated strong interest in moose management and suggested a number of specific actions that could help enhance moose population numbers.
A majority of comments acknowledged the need for changes to moose harvest seasons. Many agreed there should be restrictions on calf harvest, while the majority did not agree with the two-week calf season as proposed. There were a wide range of ideas offered about the kind of harvest strategies that should be implemented. These included disagreement with the proposed two-week calf season and 2016 season delay, the suggestion that alternative harvest management strategies should be implemented, and citing the need for greater restrictions than those proposed (e.g., no calf hunting).
Specific reasons cited for disagreeing with the proposed regulations included: opposition to any further hunting restrictions, the need to address other pressures on moose populations, loss of hunting opportunity and reduced hunt quality, concern for impact on businesses and the economy in northern Ontario, the belief that the proposed regulations will not be effective, and/or that different or more restrictive harvest management strategies should be implemented.
Suggestions for alternative or more restrictive harvest management strategies included no calf hunting, no calf or cow hunting, a temporary moratorium on calf hunting, a shortened season overall (i.e., 2-3 weeks in total) and restrictions on party hunting or access to areas where forestry activities have occurred.
Most commenters encouraged MNRF to consider management actions to address a broader range of factors affecting moose populations in addition to, or instead of harvest management. The most common concerns expressed were about predation by bears and wolves, habitat availability and forest management practices, harvest by Aboriginal people, parasites and disease, tag quotas and allocation, need for mandatory harvest reporting, and concerns about moose population monitoring. A portion of comments discussed these other factors alone and did not address the proposed regulations.
Comments received in response to the posting were carefully considered in light of recent moose population trends. A decision was made to proceed with the proposed regulatory amendments without change as an initial step to help address and mitigate pressures affecting moose populations. The broader range of factors affecting moose populations (in addition to harvest) and potential actions that could be taken to address them will continue to be examined and discussed as part of the next phase of the Moose Project. Discussions will also occur on moose population objectives for individual wildlife management units, which are a key element of how moose are managed in Ontario.
In the short-term it is anticipated these changes to hunting regulations may have a social and economic impact on Ontarians but over the long term these changes are expected to have a positive effect on moose populations, resulting in continued and possibly enhanced moose hunting opportunities in the future.
 
Was up near arm strong 5 years ago for moose, natives destroyed that area, shoot all the Bears and moose. time too end natives not having to follow hunting seasons
 
wood800 said:
Was up near arm strong 5 years ago for moose, natives destroyed that area, shoot all the Bears and moose. time too end natives not having to follow hunting seasons
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Not that I disagree with everyone having to follow hunting seasons, but that is quite the exaggeration. I bet if you look at the number of natives hunting today, versus the number that hunted 20 years ago, the numbers have dwindled. Everywhere up Highway 527 is full of bear (and wolves...). I commuted to my hunting area in WMU 15B every day for a week last fall from my house (~1.5h one way) and saw 17 moose on the highway (outside of legal light) - bulls, cows, calves with a significant number in WMU 13 on the way up. Everywhere I went in the bush in 15B I found tracks. The numbers are down to some extent, but it's not like there are none left in the area.
 
mnr said:
Not that I disagree with everyone having to follow hunting seasons, but that is quite the exaggeration. I bet if you look at the number of natives hunting today, versus the number that hunted 20 years ago, the numbers have dwindled. Everywhere up Highway 527 is full of bear (and wolves...). I commuted to my hunting area in WMU 15B every day for a week last fall from my house (~1.5h one way) and saw 17 moose on the highway (outside of legal light) - bulls, cows, calves with a significant number in WMU 13 on the way up. Everywhere I went in the bush in 15B I found tracks. The numbers are down to some extent, but it's not like there are none left in the area.
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I use to supervise forestry operations around Armstrong, you are right, there were always lots of moose and bear sign. The bigger impact on moose numbers in that area in recent years is that forest management is geared towards woodland caribou habitat management and discouraging moose habitat. There also hasn't been any forest harvesting in that forest for close to 10 years now, so the amount of browse habitat for moose is diminishing.

Also, most natives won't shoot bears, its a spiritual thing I won't try to explain. I find it funny on these last few Ontario moose hunting threads, the majority of Southern Ontario hunters blame the natives, whereas most of the natives and the non-native northern locals blame the Southern Ontario hunters.
 
Kenny_G2 said:
I use to supervise forestry operations around Armstrong, you are right, there were always lots of moose and bear sign. The bigger impact on moose numbers in that area in recent years is that forest management is geared towards woodland caribou habitat management and discouraging moose habitat. There also hasn't been any forest harvesting in that forest for close to 10 years now, so the amount of browse habitat for moose is diminishing.

Also, most natives won't shoot bears, its a spiritual thing I won't try to explain. I find it funny on these last few Ontario moose hunting threads, the majority of Southern Ontario hunters blame the natives, whereas most of the natives and the non-native northern locals blame the Southern Ontario hunters.
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Not as much luck in the area of 15B I was in as past years due to warm weather during the days opening week, but I'll give you one guess as to which group I saw the most calves harvested from ;)

Almost always an OFAH sticker on their trucks too... weird
 
Every hunter i have talked to that hunts moose, has said moose populations have bden plummeting, that last few years.

Sounds to me like this change is overdue.
 
We have never shot a calf (been hunting moose for close to 40 years now), but it somehow seems different now that we "can't" shoot them outside the two week season - maybe just a "mental" thing.

But given that in the WMU's around Algonquin Parks east side has had calf restrictions for (gotta be) over 10 years now and it has had "zero impact" on increasing the herd you gotta wonder.

Isn't one of the definitions of stupidity "repeating the same experiment continuously expecting a different result".

I don't know what the answer is, but what they are proposing has been tried on a smaller scale in a half dozen WMU's and "hasn't worked", maybe something else is in order that includes something other than "clamping down on hunters who actually buy tags".
 
Kenny_G2 said:
I use to supervise forestry operations around Armstrong, you are right, there were always lots of moose and bear sign. The bigger impact on moose numbers in that area in recent years is that forest management is geared towards woodland caribou habitat management and discouraging moose habitat. There also hasn't been any forest harvesting in that forest for close to 10 years now, so the amount of browse habitat for moose is diminishing.

Also, most natives won't shoot bears, its a spiritual thing I won't try to explain. I find it funny on these last few Ontario moose hunting threads, the majority of Southern Ontario hunters blame the natives, whereas most of the natives and the non-native northern locals blame the Southern Ontario hunters.
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I hunted moose up the Trail Lake Rd as far as you could drive to the NW of Armstrong. There was always lots of moose sign and we usually got moose. Then in 2011 nothing, no sign, no moose, it was like they were plucked off the face of earth in that area, 2012-13 were the same. I am acquainted with a few folks in Armstrong. They claimed they were getting no moose either .??? Also one of the local resorts who also operates fly in was telling me his fly in camps in 2013 did very well but his hunters based at his main lodge did very poor.
What I did see in the last two years I hunted there was wolf tracks, fresh ones almost everyday. Armstrong is remote, groceries expensive, you will never convince me the local folks do not help themselves to what fresh meat they require when they need it from the local bush and lakes, be it moose, caribou or fish. Can't say that I wouldn't do any different.

galamb' you make a valid point. It was Einstein that said "the height of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". That pretty much sums up the MNR's moose management policies.
 
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Biggest issue I have with the MNR and others that make the rules is they are way to reactive and not proactive. They wait until things are out of control before implementing changes and those changes tend to be drastic. I'm consistently disappointed in the decisions made regarding our wildlife and outdoors
 
Hey just want to state something
your governent guys in ontario must be as smart as our guys from bc
they let everyone shoot calfs and spike Bulls and can't figure out what's going on.
And I quote moose population on the decline . It ain't on the decline you dumb a$&&
your shooting all your future moose
allow us to take large Bulls only and let the other moose grow . Same as they did with elk 20 years ago and look at our elk population now
 
My dad, who was a commercial fisherman in the Bay of Fundy for most of his adult years, used to say "It takes Ottawa 10 years to make a decision on the fishing industry, and by then it's 10 years too late".

One of my closest friends has been a hunting buddy for about 25 years. Now a retired CO in Ontario, he has shared his frustrations with me over Provincial politics' constantly changing, with a change of the Party in Power, in their meddling in MNR affairs -- in the wildlife branch in particular. He was also very frustrated in being restricted in the application of laws as far as the native communities were concerned. It's a very well known fact that there is a serious inequality as to the application and interpretation of laws if you have white-european ancestry vs aboriginal in many areas of legislation; hunting regs in particular.

Just one example: I love moose hunting but have pretty much given up on it because I have to travel 1600 kms (land travel) to get "there" for a 25% chance on a bull. BTDT a few times and got one nice bull. So, over the past 30+ years I've focused on bear hunting, each year here in ON. It makes more practical sense as within an hour from my house I have lots of opportunity to bait for bears.

But we also take in student boarders. A couple of years ago a 22 yr old native male was boarding with us. We began to talk hunting. He had brought into his room a full box of Remington 180gr Core-Lokt .30-06 ammo for family and friends to hunt moose with. By a box, I mean a sealed box about 18" x 12" x 12", containing cartridge cases of 20 each! It was enough to start a war! And he didn't pay for that out of his own pocket. I engaged him in conversation and he told of his family shooting moose whenever they wanted -- if I recall, it was about a dozen over the past year! And he said he could hunt anywhere he wanted, whenever he wanted if it was native land! It's hard to imagine that one family needs a dozen moose over a 12 month cycle! Does the MNR know where the rest (of the meat) goes? The facts are these -- they can examine your freezer and mine but not theirs!

I'll be the last to blame aboriginals for taking advantage of inequitable laws... but who makes them? I was born in Canada 55 years before he was, and he has privileges I could only dream about!

This isn't a rant against our natives, but don't expect our weak human governments to be wise, fair and honest -- they have their own personal agendas -- that is to appease those who elect them from the big cities, and look good in the process!

And the liberal media isn't on our side either.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
The mnr encourages group hunting, yet now we cant even go for a walk without the adult-tag holder being in communication at all times.
 
bigborefan said:
But we also take in student boarders. A couple of years ago a 22 yr old native male was boarding with us. We began to talk hunting. He had brought into his room a full box of Remington 180gr Core-Lokt .30-06 ammo for family and friends to hunt moose with. By a box, I mean a sealed box about 18" x 12" x 12", containing cartridge cases of 20 each! It was enough to start a war! And he didn't pay for that out of his own pocket. I engaged him in conversation and he told of his family shooting moose whenever they wanted -- if I recall, it was about a dozen over the past year! And he said he could hunt anywhere he wanted, whenever he wanted if it was native land! It's hard to imagine that one family needs a dozen moose over a 12 month cycle! Does the MNR know where the rest (of the meat) goes? The facts are these -- they can examine your freezer and mine but not theirs!

I'll be the last to blame aboriginals for taking advantage of inequitable laws... but who makes them? I was born in Canada 55 years before he was, and he has privileges I could only dream about!

www.bigbores.ca
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If the young man you are talking about was from a northern reserve your numbers don't seem out of line. There are a few points you need to consider from the info you have posted. I doubt the dozen moose only fed one family, or one family as you think of it. A quarter to a half of most reserves are all related, so "family" can include any number of grand parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Not everyone hunts on a reserve, those that have taken on that responsibility and are good at it usually shoot animals for other families. I have party hunted for moose, if a moose is split 4 or 5 ways you usually get 2 liquor boxes of cut meat and 20lbs of hamburger, that's not a lot of meat when you have a "family" to feed all year. While all reserves have a store, meat can be expensive to get in the north, so moose and caribou are a good alternative.

You have to remember, most native hunters are subsistence hunting, not sport hunting. So if you get a chance to harvest a moose while out fishing you take it, gas is not cheap in the north so they have to take the opportunities as they arise.

Aboriginal hunting is a Right protected by Treaty and the Constitution, not a law. So it can't be taken away, the MNR tried very hard to take it away over the past few decades until they started getting their asses handed to them in court. The animosity First Nations have towards MNR is pretty strong, although recent changes in government policies are forcing them to work closer together for economic development. Perhaps some day there will be a working relationship were they can talk about managing the native hunt, but it is not there yet, imho.
 
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