ONTARIO MOOSE HUNTERS! Any support for a boycott?

[Chuckbuster]

If it had been properly managed by the mnr in the first place. This drastic of an impact would not take place. IMO!

No doubt about it. The biological assumptions made by MNR were incorrect, and now; much later, the results blow.

 

[rimfire458]

I am not a Moose hunter but you will boycott and someone else will get your tag!!

I can imagine that the above fear is why he wouldn't be doing well on the OOD forum. I support You whole heartedly. The MNR ALWAYS does the right thing. Some might argue it has no value done 15 years late, but hey Who's counting.

 

[sharp shooter]

I don't agree with this . Over 100,000 purchased tags and applied in the lottery last year . How many actually went moose hunting , I have no idea so i'll just throw out a number . Let's say , half or 50,000 . I live in the heart of moose country , Thunder Bay so I have no expenses like the guys from the south coming north and I easily spend $1,000.00 every season for guns , ammo , food , fuel , tags and toilet paper . Let's say the total all in cost for every hunter no matter where he comes from is $1,000.00 . We're now at $500 million added to the economy of Ontario and that's big bucks . Is it that much , I don't know but in any case it's a terrific amount of money . Of course a boycott won't work because we have the stakeholders like the OFAH who'll support any restriction on anything like they supported the ban on game farming , the cancellation of the spring bear hunt and the necessity for hunters to buy wolf tags with the limit of two per calander year .

I hunt/shoot 12 months per year and have been doing so for over 60 years . It started to change about 15 years ago . Prior to that it was fairly easy to find and harvest a calf . Not so anymore . I can find , no exaggeration , 50 piles of bear scat per day from the 2nd week in May until mid-July and it's close to impossible to find piles of bear scat without moose hair in it . I had a local MNR biologist tell me that 70% of moose calves don't survive the first year and 60% of those are being killed by bears . I've watched bears killing moose calves . As the population of bears increased after the cancellation of the spring bear hunt the graph is almost inversely proportional to the decrease in moose . Our remaining moose population is old and the younger cows drop calves only to have bears kill them . The MNR has not addressed this and won't because they'll never admit they were wrong when they caved to political pressure .

There is another big one , and it's big . Brain worm introduced by white tail deer . Up to about 15 years ago you had to be very , very lucky to get a deer around here . Now they are everywhere and expanding their range farther north and west every year . Last year the Minnesota DNR did an actual areal survery of their moose population . The Minnesota border is 40 miles from me . The survey was done in the last two weeks of Janurary and the first two weeks of February . They found 81 dead moose and the autopsys showed all dead from brain worm and the DNR actually shot 3 more that were staggering who were infected with brain worm also . Closer to home moose have been found in the Sibley Penninsula (Sleeping Giant) with brain worm as well as moose from Black Sturgeon .

Ticks . In the DNR survey all the dead moose were infected with from 30,000 to 200,000 ticks per moose , in the dead of winter and parasites will kill the host . The whole survey is online but you'll have to find and read it . It's ghastly . Maybe 2014 Minnesota moose survey , brain worm or some search like that .

Finally . I personally know almost everyone on the Fort William First Nations rez as well as the Gull Bay rez 100 miles north and they are not out slaughtering moose . One party may take 5 moose and share with the rez while the other 100 families don't even hunt .

Bears , brain worm and ticks and the MNR addresses none of it . In addition , studies in northern Manitoba and Saskatchewan show that a pack of 9 to 12 wolves will killed one moose every 6 to 7 days and according to the local biologist there are up to , estimated , 8,000 timber wolves in northern and north western Ontario . Do the math and they are now protected with a tag system . The MNR again protecting Walt Disney .

The human harvest is statistically insignificant compared to what's really going on out there and everything , including the MNR is working against the moose population . I know the two biologists from the University Of Michigan who have been conducting the moose survey on Isle Royale , just south of me . They've been on it for the last 15 years but the actual survey has been on going for 40 years . It's over . The wolves have finally killed off the last of the moose . Google it , it's all there . How about the most southernly herd of woodland caribou on planet Earth . The Slate Islands , just off Rossport . The small herd has been on the islands since the galciers retreat 7,000 years ago . Don't bother booking a vacation to go see them . About 10 years ago the wolves started crossing the frozen ice for miles out and in one winter they killed every caribou that had been there since the ice age . The MNR knew all about it and a political decision was made in Toronto to not intervene and 7,000 years of history was wiped out . One fvcking shooter in a helicopter could have saved the caribou and we'd have them for another 7,000 years .

same thing i heard from a friend who is a biologist for the mnr

 

[44fordy]

Here's one of the replies I received from the MNR regarding questions I had... just an fyi

Dear 44fordy,

Thank you for your patience while we sought answers to your questions. Your questions are below, with the answers as supplied by the program areas:

Can you please list for me the exact 24 units that were surveyed and when the surveys were conducted.

Moose aerial inventory surveys in winter 2013-14 were completed in 25 Wildlife Management Units across the province (of 67 WMUs where moose are managed). These surveys are conducted as a means to estimate moose population sizes and trends. Out of the 25 surveys, 14 were in North West Region, seven were in North East Region and four were in Southern Region. The WMUs included 01C, 03, 04, 05, 08, 09B, 11A, 11B, 13, 14, 17, 18B, 19, 20, 23, 28, 32, 35, 36, 39, 41, 46, 48, 54 and 65.

Have moose tag quotas/allocations been adjusted for just the 24 WMU’s surveyed OR the entirety of Ontario?

Moose tag quotas are determined annually for each WMU to account for changes in estimated population abundance and hunter harvest composition and success rates to ensure that hunting opportunities are sustainable. Factors taken into account include:
o moose aerial inventory results;
o current population relative to moose population objectives;
o mid-winter composition of the populations (level of calf recruitment rates and bull to cow ratios);
o past and anticipated hunter success rates and calf harvests (compiled from hunter surveys);
o Aboriginal/Metis moose harvest levels where known;
o Knowledge of other stressors (e.g., winter tick disease)
o local input and consultation.
Staff calculated 2014 resident moose tag quotas for the 2014 in February early March of this year. The 2014 resident moose tag quotas were reviewed by provincial stakeholder representatives (including OFAH) in mid-March prior to their finalization and release in April.

Is it true that the new licences system for purchasing paper/plastic licensing is outsourced to a company in Tennessee?

In 2011, the Ministry implemented a new licensing automation system. The service provider for the new system is a US based company called Active Outdoors. The decision to select Active Outdoors as the developer and vendor for the new licensing system was based on a fair and competitive procurement process. No Canadian company completed the bidding process. Although Active Outdoors is an American company based out of Nashville, Tennessee many of our licensing services and processing remain in Ontario. Clients can continue to renew their cards and purchase their licences through the automated telephone licensing line at 1-800-288-1155, on-line or in person at select ServiceOntario Centres and participating private issuers across the province. Customer service remains a priority, and clients can continue to contact the Outdoors Card Centre in Peterborough, Ontario at 1-800-387-7011 for guidance and assistance with their licence purchase or renewal process. All Outdoors Cards continue to be manufactured and distributed from our vendor located in Markham, Ontario

Has Quebec’s moose population been a consideration amongst all your surveys? (There was only mention of Manitoba and Minnesota)
Why does Quebec have a manageable and sustainable moose population with a completely different system, subsequently, why has this system not been developed in Ontario.

All provinces have different factors that influence moose management regimes (e.g. numbers of moose hunters, amount of access, predator communities). For example, significant portions of Crown Land in Quebec are controlled within Zones of Controlled Exploitation, where access is limited and hunters pay additional fees in order to access areas to hunt for moose. During the 2008 Moose Program Review, while some hunters offered suggestions for improvement to our draw the majority of hunters responded they prefer the open and accessible system currently in place in Ontario.

We hope this information is useful to you. Sincerely,

NRIC web reader - JR
************************************
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry
Natural Resources Information Centre
300 Water Street, 3rd Floor, North Tower
Peterborough, ON K9J 3C7
1-800-667-1940
TTY: 1-866-686-6072
mnr.nric.mnr@ontario.ca

 

[44fordy]

This is another reply from the MNR from previous questions.

Thank you for your email dated August 25, 2014. As we had to engage several Ministry of Natural Resource (MNRF) program area specialists in order to respond to your email, we apologize for the delay in sending you a response. I am pleased to respond to you today.

The Ministry understands your frustrations at not being successful for the 2014 moose draw. Moose quotas and Guaranteed Group Sizes are determined by the biologists responsible for each Wildlife Management Unit (WMU). MNRF will re-evaluate the size of the Guaranteed Groups Size in each unit in subsequent years to determine the appropriate Guaranteed Groups Size for the unit. Moose numbers in any unit, can increase and decrease through time, and tag numbers flow accordingly. It is recognized that this ebb and flow in moose populations and tag numbers can impact moose hunter behavior across broad geographic scales. Factors such as harvest, predation, parasites, habitat condition and low calf numbers can all contribute to shifts in moose population. There have also been concerns about the health of moose populations in other neighbouring provinces and states close to Ontario, such as Minnesota and Manitoba. Ontario will continue to monitor the moose population and collaborate with the hunting community to ensure moose populations are sustainable.

MNRF conducts Moose Aerial Inventories (MAI) annually, in different wildlife management units across Ontario. MNRF surveyed 24 WMU’s last year according to our MAI standards at an average cost of $40k per survey. Depending upon the location and the size of the wildlife management survey the costs will vary. It is through these surveys that MNRF is able to monitor and manage moose populations. The MNRF uses staff, both from the Districts and the Regions, and various stakeholder groups and First Nations when conducting the MAI’s. Therefore, there is quite a team of knowledge and expertise involved in the survey.

The moose adult validation tag draw system was developed in the early 1980s, as the most equitable approach to distribute limited adult moose hunting opportunities to Ontario resident hunters. Over time, the system has been changed and improved, primarily to address concerns expressed by the hunting community. Such changes and improvements have undergone engagement, consultation and input from stakeholder groups as well as the general hunting community and the public.
We have heard the concerns of Ontario’s hunting community. The ministry’s response will ensure that Ontario remains responsive to emerging pressures on the moose population. Through a collaborative initiative (The Moose Project), we will consider numerous factors that contribute to shifts in moose population abundance such as harvest, predation, parasites, climate and habitat quality. We will explore potential management actions to address or mitigate the pressures on Ontario’s moose population.

We thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

Regards,


NRIC web reader - SB
************************************
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry
Natural Resources Information Centre
300 Water Street, 3rd Floor, North Tower
Peterborough, ON K9J 3C7
1-800-667-1940
TTY: 1-866-686-6072
Fax: 705-755-1677
mnr.nric.mnr@ontario.ca