Ontario set to expand areas where dogs can learn to hunt live coyotes in penned areas

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Ontario set to expand areas where dogs can learn to hunt live coyotes in penned areas

https://ottawacitizen.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/ontario-set-to-expand-areas-where-dogs-can-learn-to-hunt-live-coyotes-in-penned-areas/wcm/392c812b-6ed8-4ee6-b742-ec93a8a1e0ff

The Canadian Press
Liam Casey
Published May 05, 2023 • 3 minute read

TORONTO — Ontario wants to expand a licensing regime that allows residents to unleash dogs in an enclosed area to teach them how to hunt captive coyotes, foxes and rabbits.

Hunters say there is a growing demand for the dog sport, which is often referred to as training and trialing, while animal advocates call it a cruel practice for the captive prey.

The province’s natural resources and forestry minister said the government wants to allow more of the hunting facilities to prevent the sport from moving underground.

“These facilities are going to become less and less over time unless we take some level of intervention,” Graydon Smith said in an interview.

“The one thing that we also wouldn’t want to see is in the absence of these facilities that dog owners and their handlers are out doing this on other private land or Crown land where there could be unwanted interactions with both people and wildlife.”

In 1997, then-premier Mike Harris’s Progressive Conservative government began phasing out the practice by ceasing the issuance of licenses required to operate dog trial areas in the province. It also made it illegal to sell or transfer those licenses.

At that time there were upwards of 60 such areas across Ontario. They are all on private property and must be completely enclosed.

There are now only 24 licensed train and trial areas across the province.

The province has proposed to grant new licenses through a one-time 90-day application period and allow licenses to be transferred to new owners, a summary of proposed changes on the Environmental Registry of Ontario shows.

The prey that will be hunted, usually coyotes, must be caught legally, often through traplines, the registry says.

“This isn’t about active hunting or anything like that,” Smith said. “This is about animals that are bred for this purpose.”

The government’s proposals were sent out for public comment in early April and close on May 18. The proposed changes are part of an omnibus bill tabled in early April called the Less Red Tape, Stronger Economy Act.

John Bell, the president of the Ontario Sporting Dog Association, said Wednesday at a legislative committee studying the bill that the closure of dedicated training and trialing areas have forced hunters to “run their dogs” in the wild.

Christine Hogarth, the parliamentary assistant for the solicitor general, who is in charge of animal welfare in the province, pressed Bell on the safety of all animals in the training and trialing pens.

Bell, who owns a large pen for the sport and trains his dogs to hunt coyotes, said there are rules in place for animal safety.

“The regulations call for us to have brush piles, dens, or man-made escape units, we call them pods,” Bell said.

He has built pods on his own 225-acre pen that includes concrete culverts leading to buried 45-gallon drums that are vented above, he said. The pods are baited with food so the coyotes learn where to hide.

“If they are in danger, they’re in the ground,” he said. “And I can assure you there’s not very many dogs going to go in a 10-inch culvert when there’s an alligator at the other end.”

There are now 33,000 members in the Ontario Sporting Dog Association, which lobbied the government over the past year on the training and trialing licenses.

The dog sport also has competitions. Judges stand throughout the enclosures — some are hundreds of acres in size — to score how well dogs are tracking and hunting down coyotes. The first dog trialing competition in Ontario took place in 1887, Bell said.

The dog trial proposal also has the support of the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters.

“This has been a priority for us for since the beginning of the changes in 1997,” said Kristen Snoek, a wildlife biologist with the federation.

But Camille Labchuk, the executive director of advocacy group Animal Justice, argued the entire practice is inhumane.

“They do some of these contests where dogs chase terrified coyotes around an enclosed pen, and they also train the dogs to kill the coyotes so that they can later use those dogs for hunting,” she said.

She said the current Doug Ford Progressive Conservative government could learn from the Harris government in the late 1990s.

“The Harris government did a number of things to protect wild animals from some of the worst hunting lobbyists by ending the spring bear hunt and phasing out penned coyote hunting,” Labchuk said.

The Liberal government reintroduced the spring bear hunt in Ontario as a pilot program in 2014, which Ford’s government made permanent in 2021.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published May 5, 2023.
 
The province’s natural resources and forestry minister said the government wants to allow more of the hunting facilities to prevent the sport from moving underground.

Hear that? Non-compliance works. Can you imagine the RCMP saying they're going to allow hunting with AR's, because they're worried hunters will use AR's to hunt illegally?
 
Not sure how I feel about this.

Ontario has a BSL ban that ban "dangerous" dogs. They made dog fighting illegal. But they want to open up areas where dogs can fight and kill coyotes? So how is this different than dog fighting? Your dog can get killed or injured, for what? Sport?
 
Baiting is releasing dogs on an animal that is either tethered or kept in an enclosed place to injure or kill the animal. The description in OP would seem to me to be a violation of the legislation under subsection 445.1(1) of the Criminal Code:

Causing unnecessary suffering

445.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who

(a) wilfully causes or, being the owner, wilfully permits to be caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal or a bird;

(b) in any manner encourages, aids, promotes, arranges, assists at, receives money for or takes part in

(i) the fighting or baiting of animals or birds, or
 
Baiting is releasing dogs on an animal that is either tethered or kept in an enclosed place to injure or kill the animal. The description in OP would seem to me to be a violation of the legislation under subsection 445.1(1) of the Criminal Code:

Causing unnecessary suffering

445.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who

(a) wilfully causes or, being the owner, wilfully permits to be caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal or a bird;

(b) in any manner encourages, aids, promotes, arranges, assists at, receives money for or takes part in

(i) the fighting or baiting of animals or birds, or

Oh stop running coyotes with hounds has been as sport since hunting was deemed a sport. I’m my opinion it’s a viable way to control predator numbers. Others will say no but I hunted with hounds for years taking75-80 coyotes a season the following year numbers taken were appx half. 30-50. When we are taking penned coyotes we are taking a couple hundred acres or more. Running your dogs, keeps them conditioned and in shape for the coyote season which is from appx first snow to last accumulating snowfall.
Most times the hounds may occasionally kill a coyote but most times the coyotes will bay up in a brush pile or culvert etc. The dogs may pester the coyote for a while but often lose interest. The dogs live to chase not to kill…they can be trained to kill and some dogs naturally are more inclined to kill than others.
Running hounds on coyotes is a generational tradition in Ontario. It’s great way to get your sons or daughters into hunting and being able to hunt with groups of friends and family and the dogs only add to the experience.

I think this I a great way to keep the hound hunting tradition alive.
 
No different than using dogs for racoons.. which at night ontario says you must use or rabbit huntung. The dogs aren't training to fight the coyotes.. they're tracking and holding them in a location.
No hunter wants their dog to fight unless they're a complete boob.
 
What you fellows are describing is a hunting activity using dogs. The coyotes and foxes are not running lose in a field, they are being kept in an enclosed space, which is the baiting of animals, not the hunting of animals.
 
Running coyotes with dogs used to be legal in Alberta at one time, but public outrage nixed it. Dogs hunting them in fenced areas ain't gonna fly.

Grizz
 
Baiting is releasing dogs on an animal that is either tethered or kept in an enclosed place to injure or kill the animal. The description in OP would seem to me to be a violation of the legislation under subsection 445.1(1) of the Criminal Code:

Causing unnecessary suffering

445.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who

(a) wilfully causes or, being the owner, wilfully permits to be caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal or a bird;

(b) in any manner encourages, aids, promotes, arranges, assists at, receives money for or takes part in

(i) the fighting or baiting of animals or birds, or

If you read the article you would have seen the part where it mentions in 1997 there was 60 such sites across the province and today there are 27.

It's not like this is anything new so im not sure why you're quoting the criminal code as though you think these 'new' training areas won't be allowed to open.
 
What you fellows are describing is a hunting activity using dogs. The coyotes and foxes are not running lose in a field, they are being kept in an enclosed space, which is the baiting of animals, not the hunting of animals.

it's training the dogs to hunt just like using live quail and pheasant to teach retrievers.

How else are they supposed to learn?
 
If you read the article you would have seen the part where it mentions in 1997 there was 60 such sites across the province and today there are 27.

It's not like this is anything new so im not sure why you're quoting the criminal code as though you think these 'new' training areas won't be allowed to open.

My issue is just how ass backward Ontario is. Ban breeds due to its history, kill 1000s based on a breed vs if it caused any issues. But it's okay for hunters to bait and have them chase down enclosed wildlife, all for training.
 
Some years back, Ontario passed a law making it illegal to allow one animal to fight another. The OFA (Ontario Federation of Agriculture) asked for an exemption for guard dogs protecting livestock. At the time, they said they didn't receive an answer. I don't know if they got one later.
 
Some years back, Ontario passed a law making it illegal to allow one animal to fight another. The OFA (Ontario Federation of Agriculture) asked for an exemption for guard dogs protecting livestock. At the time, they said they didn't receive an answer. I don't know if they got one later.

Yes, this would be interesting to know about. Perhaps, the federal government has provided an exemption to the baiting legislation for certain activities.
 
My issue is just how ass backward Ontario is. Ban breeds due to its history, kill 1000s based on a breed vs if it caused any issues. But it's okay for hunters to bait and have them chase down enclosed wildlife, all for training.

while I am against breed bans, not sure how that correlates to hunting. And it hasn't killed thousands.. unless you have numbers not feelings

how do you train dogs?
 
Rick Maw made 103 grand in 2019 and was a Covid warrior , pushing vaccines and rules on his twit feed.

The other guy is from Oro, which is coyote dogging country and seems to be a bit of an activist up there.

I couldnt care less what 2 of my former employees say.
 
so today it is still legal in 6 facilities and they want to expand it why not? if this is legal and good for the sport. who care about coyotes are nt they predator that destroy and kill humane property?
 
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