Opening up the .350 Rem Mag.

1899

1899

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Location
West
I know one member who had a .375-350 Rem Mag - and it sounds like a nice little cartridge. From what I understand it can push a 270gr bullet to 2500fps out of a 22" barrel which, unless I am mistaken, is right there with the original .375 H&H loads. (yes I know those original H&H loads were very low pressure compared to today - but they killed very well).


What about the .416-350 Rem Mag, which is also known as the .416 Express and .416 Lockhart? Do any CGNers have experience or load data/results for it? I've only found one claim on the internet and it was 2500fps out of a 22" tube with a 350gr bullet.

Lastly there is the 9.3-.350 Rem Mag, also known as the 9.3 BS (Barsness Sisk) which duplicates the performance of 9.3x62. Again, the performance of the 9.3x62 has been proven many times - even on Cape Buffalo.

A fellow could cobble together a short action Remington and be under 6lbs with one of these chambering. And seeing that they should burn about 60 grains of powder, the recoil would be quite manageable. Any one of them appear to be a good candidate for a very lightweight rifle with excellent stopping power.
 
A 375H&H 358 would be the same as a 358Norma magnum...Only in a longer action.
250 grains at 2800fps.

The 416Rem/358 is also known as the 358 Shooting Times Alaskan (STA).
It pushes 250's at about 3000fps.
I would not use this one in a super light rifle.
 
X-fan said:
A 375H&H 358 would be the same as a 358Norma magnum...Only in a longer action.
250 grains at 2800fps.

The 416Rem/358 is also known as the 358 Shooting Times Alaskan (STA).
It pushes 250's at about 3000fps.
I would not use this one in a super light rifle.
Click to expand...

1899 is talking about necking up the .350 Rem Mag not the .358 Norma Mag.
 
1899 said:
...What about the .416-350 Rem Mag, which is also known as the .416 Express and .416 Lockhart? Do any CGNers have experience or load data/results for it? I've only found one claim on the internet and it was 2500fps out of a 22" tube with a 350gr bullet...
Click to expand...

Ken Waters "Pet Loads" has the 416 express listed, along with load data and other info.
 
Sounds like a great idea! Being a fan of both the 6.5mm and 350 Rem Mags (the ORIGINAL short mags!), there should be more interest in all of these. I read about the 9.3 Sisk rifle. I want one. On a different note, I was lucky enough to come across a box of new Rem 6.5 brass (500 rounds) bulk that I squirreled away. Been thinking a 270-6.5 would be another great way to get 270 win performance.

Please build one in 375 and let us know how it works!
 
I had a 416 Express once. It was able to hit 2500ft/sec with 300X bullets. The kick was hefty but ok and it was a very well balanced cartridge. Unfortunately mine wasn't a very accurate rifle. McGowan did the barrel and chambering and the neck dimensions were over sized.

Never got better than 2.5" at 100 yards but it wasn't the cartridges fault. That said the regular 350 Rem Mag is more versatile. If I really wanted to upbore though the 416 would be a fine choice.
 
Joep17 said:
Please build one in 375 and let us know how it works!
Click to expand...


I am thinking about it for next season. The reason it appeals to me is that I can have one in a very light, short rifle and still have plenty of power combined with manageable recoil. I was hoping that someone on CGN would have experience with the .416 version - specifically with the 340gr Woodleighs, 350gr Swift A-Frames and Speer Mag-Tips.


Takujualuk - how long was the barrel of your rifle? What powder and charge did you use?
 
416 Express would make a nice handy bolt gun for close cover for bear and moose. I love the 350 Speer but I think they discontinued it? I wonder if you could build one on a M7 action? Or a 450 Marlin on a M7 action.
 
BigUglyMan said:
416 Express would make a nice handy bolt gun for close cover for bear and moose. I love the 350 Speer but I think they discontinued it? I wonder if you could build one on a M7 action? Or a 450 Marlin on a M7 action.
Click to expand...


That is exactly what I was thinking - the M7 seems ideal for me. I was also looking at the .450 Marlin, but it seems as though the .375 and .416 would pack a pretty good punch and be better for the longer shots.

The .358" 225gr Partition is 1.175" long, the 250gr is 1.270" long. Compare that to the .375" 250gr A-Frame, which is 1.085" long. I suspect that, since the .375" bullet would take up less case capacity, it should be able to beat the 250gr .358, which closes in on 2500fps out of an 18.5" barrel. The 270gr Woodleigh RN is only 1.088" long - I suspect 2500fps is possible with this combo.

The 340gr Woodleigh is 1.179" long, virtually identical to the 225gr .358" Partition.


The issue with the .450 Marlin is that it has only 74gr of capacity, which is almost identical to the .350 Rem Mag - 73.74gr according to Barnes #1. The .375 version should close in on 75gr and the .416 would obviously be over that. Although, if you seat the bullets in the Marlin out to an OAL of 2.8" vs the SAAMI max of 2.55" it should be ok.

Edit - I ran some numbers through a case capacity calculator. The .458x2" has a case capacity of 73gr, with a case length of, obviously, 2". The Marlin version is 2.10" and has only 1gr more capacity. If the .458x2" is left at 2.10" the capacity would jump to 78gr - which is 4 more than the .450 Marlin. I suspect it is because the Marlin has a much thicker base/web area.
 
nrut said:
.416 Compact was designed for the M7 action:
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=LMJADixqDF&catid=756
or this link if the above one doesn't work
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=756

I would go with the .410 or .416 B&M myself if I wanted a small compact hammer..
They require a WSM action and can be made to weigh around 6.5 pounds or lighter depending on the stock weight..

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/9111029801/p/1
Click to expand...

The only 416 Compact is built on a Model 673 Guide Rifle that I purchased, for its creator, and helped him export to Australia. I helped Daryl with drawing up the design. Daryl is a dyed in the wool Rem fan but he now has a Win Model 70 in 50 B&M as well. He picked up the rifle from Michael on his way back to Australia after a Northern Alberta elk hunt, with me, last fall. I haven't gotten any range reports as Daryl has been busy with his military obligations.

I tried to talk him into doing a 375-300SAUM on a Winchester Model 70 action with a CRF. I still have the drawings and notes regarding the Nosler 260 AB at an expected 2400-2600 fps. Dave Mansion Precision Reamers list a reamer for an almost identical 375 - 300SAUM. If I were to do a 375 Wildcat now it would be a 375 EXTREME on the 338 RCM case. It would hold about the same amount of powder as the 350 Rem mag case and do away with the belt. It wouldn't take long to draw up the plans and get a reamer and Headspace Gauge made up.
 
lclund1946,
That's neat as I did a search on Daryl and his .416 Compact after I saw it on AmmoGuide and came up with nothing..
My interest is in a light weight short barreled .35 cal.
Something on the order of a RUM or Ruger .375 necked down to .35 cal. on a long necked, 2.25" case in a Win. WSM action..
Long neck is for cast bullets..
I don't care for a belt myself as it is redundant..

I have the rifle now but will wait for my OAS to kick in in a 1.5 years so I don't have to eat cat food between now and then..:eek:
 
I was thinking the .41 cal would be the place to go if necking up. Since its always brought up that the .358's can shoot cheap pistol bullets as well, you would retain this ablity.
 
lclund1946 - thanks for the link, I forgot about the B&M line of short magnums. They look interesting but I have a couple of issues, and in no particular order, they are:

I am not a fan of the short mag cases, although I have to say that I have not owned one, so perhaps my disdain for them is unfounded.

The .300 RSAUM has a case capacity of 73.5gr of H20 (quickload) vs 73.74gr for the .350 Rem Mag. That means that both cases will be fairly close, with a slight nod to the RSAUM, when the cases are at the same bore. I could use any .532" magnum case (cheap and easy to find) to easily form cases. The cartridges would also line up closer the center-line of the rifle for easier feeding (less spring pressure required for the follower).

So while the B&M cartridges may have a slight advantage in velocity, that advantage is not nearly enough to outweigh the disadvantages I noted above.
 
1899 said:
lclund1946 - thanks for the link, I forgot about the B&M line of short magnums. They look interesting but I have a couple of issues, and in no particular order, they are:

I am not a fan of the short mag cases, although I have to say that I have not owned one, so perhaps my disdain for them is unfounded.

The .300 RSAUM has a case capacity of 73.5gr of H20 (quickload) vs 73.74gr for the .350 Rem Mag. That means that both cases will be fairly close, with a slight nod to the RSAUM, when the cases are at the same bore. I could use any .532" magnum case (cheap and easy to find) to easily form cases. The cartridges would also line up closer the center-line of the rifle for easier feeding (less spring pressure required for the follower).

So while the B&M cartridges may have a slight advantage in velocity, that advantage is not nearly enough to outweigh the disadvantages I noted above.
Click to expand...

The Belted 350 RM is slimmer and longer so shoulder will be less and bullet will likely seat deeper , taking up more case space. This is why I would go with the 338 RCM as doing away with the belt, and going .532 right from the base to .512 at the shoulder, allows the shorter case to hold almost the same amount of powder as the SAUM.

I agree with you about the B&M cartridges, but I know Michael has used them extensively in short barreled rifles. He has done extensive bullet comparisons in different media, including Elephants, with his B&M's. He would likely agree with you as well. Daryl will eventually be the authority as he has his 416 Compact and a 50 B&M for comparison.
 
nrut said:
lclund1946,
That's neat as I did a search on Daryl and his .416 Compact after I saw it on AmmoGuide and came up with nothing..
My interest is in a light weight short barreled .35 cal.
Something on the order of a RUM or Ruger .375 necked down to .35 cal. on a long necked, 2.25" case in a Win. WSM action..
Long neck is for cast bullets..
I don't care for a belt myself as it is redundant..

I have the rifle now but will wait for my OAS to kick in in a 1.5 years so I don't have to eat cat food between now and then..:eek:
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of Daryl's 416 COMPACT.

416Compact001jpg.jpg
[/IMG]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom