Opinions on how to properly break in a new barrel.
- Thread starter taterthedog
- Start date
No just have fun and shoot it most if not all barrels will not produce a more accurate barrel by folllowing this so called break in .There has been other posts on this as well the general consensus is that the Extensive break in procedure's are nothing more than a marketing ploy by barrel manufacturers to get you to wear out your barrel thru unnessescary cleaning.Over the lifetime of a person owning a rifle they will have done more damage/wear to the barrel of there rifle from cleaning than shooting it
I think factory barrels would benefit from a break in procedure. Less jacket fouling and better accuracy. I don't mean "fire lapping".
Breaking in a barrel usually is done with anywhere from 10 to 20 rounds I have found.
Most custom barrels that are hand lapped by the manufacturer "break in" very quickly as the throat is the only area of the rifling that the gunsmith "cuts" and is the only area that really "break ins".
Following is a link about breaking in barrels from Lilja:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm
And Shilen's break in procedure:
How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?
Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don't just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.
Breaking in a barrel usually is done with anywhere from 10 to 20 rounds I have found.
Most custom barrels that are hand lapped by the manufacturer "break in" very quickly as the throat is the only area of the rifling that the gunsmith "cuts" and is the only area that really "break ins".
Following is a link about breaking in barrels from Lilja:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm
And Shilen's break in procedure:
How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?
Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don't just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.
I could post several links disputing the break in procedure the most famous is from Gale McMillian:
"Gale McMillan
Senior Member posted September 25, 1999 10:10 AM
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The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in "
"slabsides
Senior Member posted September 27, 1999 04:24 PM
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bullseye: My credentials aren't as impressive as Mr. McMillan's, but I do have some experience with new factory barrels and used ones that have been neglected or abused by previous owners. Factory barrels aren't lapped or polished as a rule; the first couple of hundred shots through therefore, apparently serve to 'season' the bore, wearing away microscopic imperfections. Especially during this time, firing too many rounds too fast is not a good practice. I try to keep the barrel cool, especially until a few hundred shots have gone down the bore. That means that at least at first, I shoot only a few shots per session, and of course cleaning after each session. It's not so much the cleaning that helps is the gradual wearing in. I have used JB Paste for years on neglected barrels, to scour out years of fouling there was nothing better until the electric de-re-unplaters came along. Maybe JB isn't good for fine lapped bores. All I know is that it is a rejuvenator and accuracy restorer on neglected barrels of the ordinary kind. As for chrome plated bores I have little experience with them, and can make no recommendation. slabsides ------------------ An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed man is a subject; a disarmed man is a slave.
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Gale McMillan
Senior Member posted September 27, 1999 06:16 PM
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Barrel makers luv ya! If you have a bad barrel there isn't much that can hurt it or help it for that matter "
"Gale McMillan
Senior Member posted September 25, 1999 10:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in "
"slabsides
Senior Member posted September 27, 1999 04:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bullseye: My credentials aren't as impressive as Mr. McMillan's, but I do have some experience with new factory barrels and used ones that have been neglected or abused by previous owners. Factory barrels aren't lapped or polished as a rule; the first couple of hundred shots through therefore, apparently serve to 'season' the bore, wearing away microscopic imperfections. Especially during this time, firing too many rounds too fast is not a good practice. I try to keep the barrel cool, especially until a few hundred shots have gone down the bore. That means that at least at first, I shoot only a few shots per session, and of course cleaning after each session. It's not so much the cleaning that helps is the gradual wearing in. I have used JB Paste for years on neglected barrels, to scour out years of fouling there was nothing better until the electric de-re-unplaters came along. Maybe JB isn't good for fine lapped bores. All I know is that it is a rejuvenator and accuracy restorer on neglected barrels of the ordinary kind. As for chrome plated bores I have little experience with them, and can make no recommendation. slabsides ------------------ An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed man is a subject; a disarmed man is a slave.
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Gale McMillan
Senior Member posted September 27, 1999 06:16 PM
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Barrel makers luv ya! If you have a bad barrel there isn't much that can hurt it or help it for that matter "
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
WOW, I'm impressed. I was expecting to read a whole list of shoot one clean barrel formulas. Ah, we are an enlightened lot.
The point of this so called technique to smooth down machining marks ON TOP of the lands. by cleaning the barrel, the thought is that we remove any copper fouling that coats these defects so that the next bullet can burnish down some more barrel metal, not the copper.
Personally, if I want to polish a surface, I use a polish and get the job done. I have been using JB for years with excellent success. I have now discovered their Red lapping polish. Basically, jewellers rouge (I think).
Follow the instructions and polish the bore. Follow up with the reg JB. Clean and be dazzled by how bright the bore becomes. This really helps production or rougher barrels (military rifles). Don't bother with a match quality factory lapped barrel. You will only do damage.
Just remember that lapping or polishing a bore is only necessary if fouling reduces accuracy in a short number of shots. Many barrels shoot their best WHEN fouled, some when badly fouled. You just have to test. As a rule, shooters clean too much and too often.
If you have to clean, clean enough to restore accuracy. Going back to bear metal is not always necessary. I just love reading those who suggest cleaning to bare metal then firing a few fouling shots before shooting for accuracy.
So what they are saying, their best accuracy happens when their barrel is dirty. Cleaning solved nothing.
For those that find a loose of accuracy after so many shots, try this. Run a tight fitting stiff brush down the bore a few times. I use the black nylon Kleen bore brushes. That has usually done the trick. For some 'match' quality barrels, a tight DRY patch will do the same thing.
I now chemically clean very little.
Jerry
The point of this so called technique to smooth down machining marks ON TOP of the lands. by cleaning the barrel, the thought is that we remove any copper fouling that coats these defects so that the next bullet can burnish down some more barrel metal, not the copper.
Personally, if I want to polish a surface, I use a polish and get the job done. I have been using JB for years with excellent success. I have now discovered their Red lapping polish. Basically, jewellers rouge (I think).
Follow the instructions and polish the bore. Follow up with the reg JB. Clean and be dazzled by how bright the bore becomes. This really helps production or rougher barrels (military rifles). Don't bother with a match quality factory lapped barrel. You will only do damage.
Just remember that lapping or polishing a bore is only necessary if fouling reduces accuracy in a short number of shots. Many barrels shoot their best WHEN fouled, some when badly fouled. You just have to test. As a rule, shooters clean too much and too often.
If you have to clean, clean enough to restore accuracy. Going back to bear metal is not always necessary. I just love reading those who suggest cleaning to bare metal then firing a few fouling shots before shooting for accuracy.
So what they are saying, their best accuracy happens when their barrel is dirty. Cleaning solved nothing.
For those that find a loose of accuracy after so many shots, try this. Run a tight fitting stiff brush down the bore a few times. I use the black nylon Kleen bore brushes. That has usually done the trick. For some 'match' quality barrels, a tight DRY patch will do the same thing.
I now chemically clean very little.
Jerry
Hi
There is an article on sniper country where a guy writes about barrels. His source of info is Mike Rock from rock creek barrels, (father of the m24 barrel). The writer quotes Mike as saying that people that do the break in thing of cleaning the barrel after 2 or 3 shots over and over are very good for his barrel making business. He also mentions some cleaning solvents that should not be used at all.
If you google "Mike rock barrels" you should be able to find it.
Sticker
There is an article on sniper country where a guy writes about barrels. His source of info is Mike Rock from rock creek barrels, (father of the m24 barrel). The writer quotes Mike as saying that people that do the break in thing of cleaning the barrel after 2 or 3 shots over and over are very good for his barrel making business. He also mentions some cleaning solvents that should not be used at all.
If you google "Mike rock barrels" you should be able to find it.
Sticker
Well, I have two Savage 12FV rifles, one in 223 that I did the break in procedure and one in 308 that I did not...
I can NOT detect a difference between them for "accuracy", they both rock! That being said... Savage know's ALOT more about making/maintaining/breaking in/accuracy etc etc etc, than I WILL EVER KNOW... and they say this...
http://www.savagearms.com/cs_barrel.htm
Cheers
Jay
I can NOT detect a difference between them for "accuracy", they both rock! That being said... Savage know's ALOT more about making/maintaining/breaking in/accuracy etc etc etc, than I WILL EVER KNOW... and they say this...
http://www.savagearms.com/cs_barrel.htm
Cheers
Jay
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Jay, please note that they defered opinion to another source. Savage did not actual recommend anything :wink:
There are many shooters who believe in the break in procedure and expect their rifle and barrel makers to preach the procedure.
Many, however, are finding no real benefit and some are finding problems. But, consumers want what consumers want so companies just go along. After all, it is good for business.
You will probably find that your Savage barrels do not copper much if any. I have a 270 and a 7RM loaded to the gills. The amount of copper fouling is basically zip. Amazing for a production barrel. They shoot very well too.
Jerry
There are many shooters who believe in the break in procedure and expect their rifle and barrel makers to preach the procedure.
Many, however, are finding no real benefit and some are finding problems. But, consumers want what consumers want so companies just go along. After all, it is good for business.
You will probably find that your Savage barrels do not copper much if any. I have a 270 and a 7RM loaded to the gills. The amount of copper fouling is basically zip. Amazing for a production barrel. They shoot very well too.
Jerry
hah and people said I was lazy with my TRG22. I just shot it. And it shoots the same clean as it does dirty. All I do now is clean the carbon out of it after a day at the range. Usually just an oil soaked patch run through a few times will do it just fine. No brushes or crap like that.
Thanks for all the replys. Lots of good info. Here's the conclusion I came to after reading it all:
No need to go nuts cleaning your barrel, to break it in.
No need to worry if you don't break it in.
I just shot a few, cleaned it with a bore snake. Shot a few more and cleaned it again. I will take it easy on it for the first 20 - 30 rounds, and not heat it up too much. After that its open season.
Thanks again guys. :mrgreen:
No need to go nuts cleaning your barrel, to break it in.
No need to worry if you don't break it in.
I just shot a few, cleaned it with a bore snake. Shot a few more and cleaned it again. I will take it easy on it for the first 20 - 30 rounds, and not heat it up too much. After that its open season.
Thanks again guys. :mrgreen:
Says it all.
Also, every time a barrel break-in thread pops up on these forums, God kills a kitten.
Sarcasm on:
You MUST break in the barrel properly or else you will be unable to consistently hit the ground beyond 50 meters. For the first 500 rounds you need to have the following items, loincloth, bone (for nose), several live chickens, sulfuric acid, hatchet, throttle cable from 1952 Hudson Hornet, and some Dead Sea salt.
Find a suitable area to set up your rifle an targets, to get proper karma it is best to use the scene of an unspeakable tragedy such as an axe murder or meeting daughters boyfriend, (in some case both will be applicable).
Install the bone in your nose and while wearing the loincloth sprinkle the Dead Sea salt over the rifle and then fire your first shot.
After the first shot is fired pour the sulfuric acid into the barrel and scrub vigorously with the 52 Hudson throttle cable for 72 strokes. This should begin to give the muzzle a nice radius-ed edge to help improve accuracy.
Refresh the acid in the barrel and take one of the live chickens and bite its head off. Circle your rifle in the same direction (important) as the barrel twist while dancing and covering the area in chicken blood. The dance should be enthusiastic enough that the loincloth will not offer much in the way of modesty, (be sure no children are present or this could lead to a misunderstanding and your name added to a list of unsavory characters).
After the chicken has discharged all of it blood grab the hatchet an strike the barrel with the blunt end to "loosen up" the stubborn fouling and help the acid do its job.
Repeat the procedure for the first 100 rounds or as many chickens as you can afford. I have found that best results happen during the summer solstice, winter was tried but frostbite to extremities hampered my testing.
Some may scoff at you but when they see the groups your new barrel can produce the last laugh will be yours.
Sarcasm off:
You MUST break in the barrel properly or else you will be unable to consistently hit the ground beyond 50 meters. For the first 500 rounds you need to have the following items, loincloth, bone (for nose), several live chickens, sulfuric acid, hatchet, throttle cable from 1952 Hudson Hornet, and some Dead Sea salt.
Find a suitable area to set up your rifle an targets, to get proper karma it is best to use the scene of an unspeakable tragedy such as an axe murder or meeting daughters boyfriend, (in some case both will be applicable).
Install the bone in your nose and while wearing the loincloth sprinkle the Dead Sea salt over the rifle and then fire your first shot.
After the first shot is fired pour the sulfuric acid into the barrel and scrub vigorously with the 52 Hudson throttle cable for 72 strokes. This should begin to give the muzzle a nice radius-ed edge to help improve accuracy.
Refresh the acid in the barrel and take one of the live chickens and bite its head off. Circle your rifle in the same direction (important) as the barrel twist while dancing and covering the area in chicken blood. The dance should be enthusiastic enough that the loincloth will not offer much in the way of modesty, (be sure no children are present or this could lead to a misunderstanding and your name added to a list of unsavory characters).
After the chicken has discharged all of it blood grab the hatchet an strike the barrel with the blunt end to "loosen up" the stubborn fouling and help the acid do its job.
Repeat the procedure for the first 100 rounds or as many chickens as you can afford. I have found that best results happen during the summer solstice, winter was tried but frostbite to extremities hampered my testing.
Some may scoff at you but when they see the groups your new barrel can produce the last laugh will be yours.
Sarcasm off:
"Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one."
Funny thing is when i called shilen concerning one of my barrels the first thing he(the owner) asked was "did you break iin the barrel properly" of course this statement confused the heck out of me but he reassured me that it is very important to break in a barrel. he said 5 rounds was enough though. cleaning between each one. that of course depends on how well they lap the barrel.
