ordering a barrel... I'm confused guys!

Dustin

Dustin

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 97.3%
36   1   0
Location
Wainwright, AB
I'm building up an M40A1 clone, and I'm a little confused about what to do with all my options regarding the barrel. I talked to Dan Lilja yesterday and he told me what contour to order, but I don't know what I should do besides that.
My gunsmith's .308 reamer is designed for the 168 SMK to feed out of an M14 mag box. The 168 SMK Sierra says should be used in a 1:12 twist barrel... which is all well and good, but Lilja also offers 1:10 and 1:11... was thinking about the 1:11 to allow me to shoot 175grainers too, but I'm confused, so I want advice of you guys that have done this sort of thing before.

Also not sure what steel to get it in... I want it Parkerized, but don't know of anyone that does it... I'm tempted to order stainless as a result just to get the gun back quicker...
 
if you contact or go to remington rifle site, they were making a limited edition m40. some of the new remingtons have stainless steel which is "coated'. some of the original guns were remington 40xb with 3x9 redfield scopes, later they used realist 3x9. MAC in Atlanta Georgia--makers of the MAC10--made up remington 40xb rifles with realist 3x9 and suppressors in the 1970's.
 
First of all, you may want to think in terms of speaking with Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and gauge in regards to ordering your own reamer. They are about $135 and Dave will assist you in designing a reamer that will accomodate whatever bullets you want. Having your own reamer gives you absolute control over what sort of leade you want. If you want a mag feed with 200 grainers, he'll help make it happen.

As for stainless or CM, I would personally opt for a CM for your application for bluing or parkerizing. They are generally a better cold weather barrel anyway.

In terms of twists, my experience with 1:11 was that they were superb with 178 grainers but not so good with 168's. Many people have had different experiences. If I were ordering a 308, I would go 1:11.

In terms of speed, if you are going with just a button-rifled barrel, why not Ted Gaillard? He's Canadian and makes the best button rifled barrels you'll ever use. For cut-rifled 30 cal, go with a Mick McPhee barrel and get him to mount it. I guarnatee you will never use another make of 30 cal barrel again, and likely never use another smith too. They are equal to the finest 30 cal barrels made in the world. Mick has quite a collection of 30 cal reamers too... I would at least talk with him.
 
168 gr SMK's were designed in the 60's for 300m ISU shooting. They can work out to 800-900 yards but are the worst 1000 yard bullet on the market.
If you are looking for a special twist try Bartlein Barrels, they claim they can give you any twist you want up to .0001".
I have never had a problem with Obermeyer chambers, however I only shoot 155 grain bullets.
 
Since you are building a historical piece, consider these specs:

M852 reamer by Clymer or Dave Manson. Most smiths have this reamer. Works wonderfully and likely the orig chambering. M852 was the designation for the 168gr MK ammo used with this rifle.

12 twist. Will work with the 175 and lighter bullets. 168gr MK was the orig loading and works wonderfully. If you want to shoot out to 1000yds, just use a 168gr Amax and no issues like the MK. The Nosler comp 168gr may be another option.

Chrome Moly for the steel. If you want to Park, that is the metal to go with. EQually accurate to SS in this application.

You should be able to get the correct contour, length and muzzle specs from Rem or off the internet. Odds are it is just a 26" varmint contour like a #7 or #5. Dan Lilja will know.

If you look in past posts here, some have already been done.

I certainly recommend both Ted and Mick for pipes. Their products are every bit as good as the US suppliers and will end up being less money. Mick may have a quicker turnaround time???

Jerry
Jerry
 
For what it's worth, Mike Rock makes a barrel that he calls his m24/m40 barrel, which is apparently to spec 1-11.27twist (Hart barrels apparently being the prime supplier for the USMC). HWSNBN carries them. The ammo the USMC shoots is 173gr M118LR.
 
Last edited:
BC_Guy said:
makesThe ammo the USMC shoots is 173gr M118LR.
Click to expand...

Dude, I am SHOCKED that YOU got this wrong...........The original M118 was a 173 gr. FMJBT.:rolleyes: :p :slap:

The Newer M118LR has a 175 gr. Sierra Matchking...........

I have a few boxes of Lake City M118 Kicking around here along with 30 rounds of M118LR.............:D

Back to Pipes................I run a 26.5 AMTU contoured McPhee Stainess barrel in a 1 in 11.3" twist. Shoots 175 SMKs & 178 AMAX bullets amazingly.:dancingbanana: Also does quite well with 168 gr SMKs.......

I had the stainless barrel installed,chambered (for the 175 to 178 bullets), and Gun-Koted OD by the late Ron March.He did an outstanding job.

SKBY.
 
+++ for Dave Kiff, I have 3 of his reamers, they are excellent.

Why not go with a Canadian bbl maker, I have 2 Galliard's they are great, fast delivery, good price and excellent quality!
 
Skullboy said:
Dude, I am SHOCKED that YOU got this wrong...........The original M118 was a 173 gr. FMJBT.:rolleyes: :p :slap:

The Newer M118LR has a 175 gr. Sierra Matchking...........

I have a few boxes of Lake City M118 Kicking around here along with 30 rounds of M118LR.............:D
Click to expand...
Well, if you want to be a stickler... :p Note that I'm getting all this from Mike Lau's book, I've got zero hands-on experience with this ammo, though I'd be glad to buy yours if you've tired of looking at it. :D

The 'original' m118 , as Jerry said, was 168gr (1967-ish), sometimes referred to as m118match, and later m118 special ball, although there was also 172grain and 173grain produced under the names m118, m118match etc, as well. Later they went with the m852 (early 80's), which again was a 168grain.

But yes, you are correct, the m118lr (1993+) is indeed a 175grain sierra, lake city brass, and 44.2grains of wc750. So I guess what ammo he shoots depends on what era of m40a1 he's going for...
 
Dustin,

I'm going over all of this myself right now. I have talked with all the prominent reamer makers and have received some great advice. However, keep in mind that each manufacture believes they build the best (and want you to buy it). Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool and Gauge has been a big help as well. There are other makes, JGS Tool, Clymer, and Manson to name a few.

You'll likely get your best advice on this subject from talking with the gun makers themselves. Talk to a few good gunsmiths and see what they've had good luck with.

Some reamer prints will handle certain bullet/brass combo's better than others. Also, you likely don't want to end up with a chambering that will be so tight you end up having to only use handloads or even turn your necks. You want the best of both worlds.

Some of the most popular reamer prints are the M-852 match, the 308 Bisley, Obermyer and a few more yet. There is an M-852 (non-match) print out there that is looser than the M-852 Match, you don't want that one. Others such as the 308 Palma will work well with 155gr bullets and suffer with the heavy ones. The 308 Bisley seems to be very popular.

Do your homework and make sure your getting what will fit your needs the best.

Perhaps some of the gunsmiths on the board could chime in.
 
Last edited:
If you will be shooting out of a 700 short mag box then your OAL will max out around 2.790, max internal box length is 2.800. The reamer design should accomodate this with whatever bullet you will be using. The SMK 155 and 168 will work well with the JGS 308 Palma 95 reamer any other reamer with more throat will not work out of you mag so don't waste your time unless you don't mind jumping your bullets, it's your call. There are other reamers like JGS 308 Obermeyer which are variations, some are a little looser some a little tighter. The Palma reamer will give you a OAL of 2.790+/- with both the SMK 155 & 168 so you will be good to go. You might wonder why I keep talking about JGS, it's because when these guys were making reamers PTG and Manson didn't even exist and most of my reamers are JGS or Clymer, I am not knocking the other reamers I own some PTG, Manson, Elliot and others they are all good just make shure to ask for critical dimensions before you buy one.
Oh one more thing I forgot, all my 308 barrels are 1:14" twist, I have also used 1:12 but found the 14's gave better accuracy and lower pressures.
bigbull
 
Last edited:
Dustin said:
AS far as barrel brand, Lilja is what I'm getting, end of story. All that needs deciding is CM or Stainless and what twist rate.
Click to expand...

You can't parkerize stainless, so if you want a park gun, your decision is made for you. I'd go with the faster twist. Gives you more options. Of course, you couls just source one of thse limited edition M40A1s that Remington produced for their elite distributors last year & get Questar or somebody to import if for you.
 
X-man said:
You can't parkerize stainless, so if you want a park gun, your decision is made for you. I'd go with the faster twist. Gives you more options. Of course, you couls just source one of thse limited edition M40A1s that Remington produced for their elite distributors last year & get Questar or somebody to import if for you.
Click to expand...
I do believe Dustin got one of the M40a1 Marine Corps return stocks I posted about last year. The M40 is a completely different animal in comparison to the M40a1. The M40 had a wood stock, different barrel contour, different scope etc.
 
Parker-Hale Mike said:
I do believe Dustin got one of the M40a1 Marine Corps return stocks I posted about last year. The M40 is a completely different animal in comparison to the M40a1. The M40 had a wood stock, different barrel contour, different scope etc.
Click to expand...

You are correct. complete with Winchester Bottom metal, and certificate of authenticity :D
 
A 12 twist barrel will shoot anything from 150 to 200 grain with no problems. If you want to obsess over the difference in 11 and 12, you are welcome to do so but are wasting your time.
A ten twist will also shoot anything you want to and you can add the 220 MK at the top end (why you would want to is another matter!).
I would use a 12.
Dave Kiff (PTG) was, at one time, the chief grinder at JGS. JGS was an offshoot of Francis. Henriksen was a grinder for Francis. Whether or not there is any blood relationship between the various Oregon makers, I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if some were in-laws though! Regards, Bill.
 
Dustin said:
AS far as barrel brand, Lilja is what I'm getting, end of story. All that needs deciding is CM or Stainless and what twist rate.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with Lilja, I have 2 and I have 3 Gaillard's. All are excellent.

There was an article in precision shooting about the XM3, a new .308 sniper system, if you pm me I can send it to you. They found a significant advantage to a 6 groove, 1:10 twist bbl for shooting M118LR (I believe this is lake city 173gn). I have a 1:10 twist bbl on my .308 and it is great with Berger 175gn vld's. I would go with the 1:10 6 groove bbl, there is no downside here.

+++ Dave Kiff, I have 3 of his reamers, and a bunch of other tooling, he is great to deal with, and his stuff is excellent.

If it was me, I would decide on the brass (my preference is Lapua), and bullet type, and make up a couple of dummy rounds to the optimum OAL you plan to use. Send these to Dave and for a nominal extra charge he will make a custom reamer match your cartridge. This is what I done, and the rifle made from this custom reamer is outstanding.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom