Question is for anyone with the knowledge of the above. Recently I have seen a 1950 #4 Enfield that was fitted with a laminated stock. Also on Ellewood Epps site, they are advertising a Laminated stocked #4. What I would like to know if Canada or England did do this with their #4's or is it an aftermarket type of stock. Cheers
Original #4 Enfield Laminated Stocks
- Thread starter LocknLoad
- Start date
Yes, Longbranch made a VERY small run of No.4 furniture using laminating techniques copied from the Nazi K98k during WW2. Any Longbranch stocked in that furniture whould have a serial number starting with "XP".
Some sets of furniture are out there minus a rifle, they are exceedingly rare. I've only seen one such rifle in person and it sold for mega-bucks.
The 1950 date makes me think someone mated the furniture to a rifle post-surplusing. Original guns should have 1943 or 1944 dates if I recall.
Some sets of furniture are out there minus a rifle, they are exceedingly rare. I've only seen one such rifle in person and it sold for mega-bucks.
The 1950 date makes me think someone mated the furniture to a rifle post-surplusing. Original guns should have 1943 or 1944 dates if I recall.
longbranch*
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria,BC.
Laminated No.4
I handled one at local show last year, told my buddy about it and he bought it. XP marked furniture on a 1950 barrel/action. From what I recall reading, someone had a small run of these made for Palma match LB's.
Geoff
I handled one at local show last year, told my buddy about it and he bought it. XP marked furniture on a 1950 barrel/action. From what I recall reading, someone had a small run of these made for Palma match LB's.
Geoff
desporterizer said:
G.E. Fulton and Sons has been involved in British target rifle shooting since about 1895. They have their shop on the grounds of the Bisley ranges. See link below for their web sight.
http://www.fultonsofbisley.com/
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
laminated No4 wood
I saw one at the Duncan gunshow last year, the fellow who bought it said that there was only 90 (ninety) made with the laminate stock. The laminations ran horizontally rather than vertical. Strangest looking thing I ever saw, it sold for $600
I saw one at the Duncan gunshow last year, the fellow who bought it said that there was only 90 (ninety) made with the laminate stock. The laminations ran horizontally rather than vertical. Strangest looking thing I ever saw, it sold for $600
Laminated stock History
Laminated stocks were contracted out to the company that made Longbranchs rifle stocks.
Colonel Strachan was the individual that ordered then production is estimated at between 55 and 90 sets based on Colonel Strachans estimate of delivered sets.
Here is an email from one of the original individuals involved.
_________________________________________
Terry,
While not an expert on the laminated stocks, I will say that I have several sets. Also several pieces that, for one reason or another, are no
longer parts of a set.
One set is made up of (roughly) 1/32" vertical laminations. The other is a mixture of widths,all being vertical as I recall.
The second set mentioned is attached to a 1967 Palma rifle that was a part of the collection of U.S. 1967 coach, Elmer Shook. I'm attaching a poor photo of that rifle. This rifle has rake screws through the back of the butt socket and into the forestock. Also, this rifle bears the name of of Dr. Lou Douglas (inside in pencil). Dr. Douglas was the Chief Medical Officer of the
National Capital Region at some point in time and
a Palma Match competitor on several occasions.
At least some of the laminated stocks were ordered by Col. William J. Strachan in the 50's or 60's.Bill is still alive (and sharp). Bill told me how many sets were made, but I don't recall. Somewhere I have notes on the subject, but I seem to remember the number being around 60. All would have gone to friends of Col. Strachan who were DCRA competitors.
Be advised that this laminated wood didn't mean much to these fellows. It was pretty, but cost them nothing. They chopped it, glued pieces to it, and in some cases used it for firewood. Makes a person cringe to think of it today!
Over the years I've collected lots of Longbranch furniture while at Connaught. Also, when Canadian friends would come to Illinois, they would bring a load to get it out of their way. Most of it is new,but some of it is in used sets. The reason for this is that many of the DCRA rifles (.303 or 7.62 conv.) were converted to target rifles where only the action was retained. Again, makes you cringe, but just the way it was.
The LB you recently purchased is beautiful.
_________________________________________________________
Another email from a fellow considered to be an expert---
___________________________________________________________
Terry,
I remember seeing a photo in Skennerton's book
of the wide (5/16-3/8") horizontally laminated wood.
I seem to recall the photo in a late North American
section on the same page (or prior page) as the page
that describes the 7.62 military target rifles. These
were the rifles that were stamped with the C in an
oval (oblong?). (page 257-258)
I have several pieces of the wider laminated wood,
but not a set. Had a chance to buy a nice set in about
1983 but dragged my feet too long. The guy only
wanted $25.00 Canadian. Now kicking myself for
either being broke or stupid!
Found my notes from a conversation with Col. Strachan.
There were 55 sets of wood shipped to Bill Strachan
in Montreal. I can only assume he was on active duty
there when he placed the order and received the stocks.
The stocks were made to specs. by a civilian contractor.
That contractor could well have been Forest Products
Laboratory, the company said to have made your stock.
The real expert in matters to do with these stocks and the
DCRA conversions is no longer with us. That man was
Alan Reid. Alan carried out the magnetic inspection of
the DCRA conversions, as well as many other duties
for the DCRA. Alan passed away this past year in NZ.
I spent many an hour with Alan and acquired
some very interesting bits and bobs from him when he
move to NZ. He was a very interesting fellow!
Oh yes.......Upon questioning Col. Strachan about the
strange variety of laminations and directions of
laminations, he hadn't a clue. "That's just the way they
were delivered."
Another thing.........Col. Strachan informed me that only
one Canadian Army team used the 7.62 conversion. That
might indicate that far less than 200 "Army competition"
(oval C) rifles were produced. I know of five that exist.
One of those five (purchased from Col. Strachan by Dr. J. C.
Thompson) was converted into a target rifle.
Sorry if this message contained TMI.<G>
All the best,
_____________________________________________________________
Next email about laminated stocks.
______________________________________________________________
Terry:
I have two or three sets of laminated wood, and always looking for more. However, from what I have been able to find out on the wood, they were all from the testing and evaluation centre, just outside of Ottawa many years ago. Apparently, it was decided that they would be sold off to DCRA or anyone that wanted them, as they did not warp, and this is paramount for a target rifle. As to numbers, no one is sure how many sets were made, but all mine do have a small number stamped on them or a painted number on the stock. I would estimate that less than 100 of each type was done up. As with anything, they will escalate in price due to the scarcity, but as to value...again, what's a blond worth on a saturday night...whatever you want to pay. I think the history on the stocks has been clouded by legend and rumour, but what I have given you is first hand and what I know about them.
Cheers,
_______________________________________________________________
So there you go.
Note the rifle pictured was in fact bought on Vancouver Island the previous owner saying that he had owned it since the sixties and shot cast lead from it and maybe 30 FMJ loads.
The bore is pristine and measures at .3025.
Mechanically the rifle is perfect.
Visually it is stunning.
Most laminated stocks were bought or given to DCRA shooters.
Regards
Terry in Victoria
Laminated stocks were contracted out to the company that made Longbranchs rifle stocks.
Colonel Strachan was the individual that ordered then production is estimated at between 55 and 90 sets based on Colonel Strachans estimate of delivered sets.
Here is an email from one of the original individuals involved.
_________________________________________
Terry,
While not an expert on the laminated stocks, I will say that I have several sets. Also several pieces that, for one reason or another, are no
longer parts of a set.
One set is made up of (roughly) 1/32" vertical laminations. The other is a mixture of widths,all being vertical as I recall.
The second set mentioned is attached to a 1967 Palma rifle that was a part of the collection of U.S. 1967 coach, Elmer Shook. I'm attaching a poor photo of that rifle. This rifle has rake screws through the back of the butt socket and into the forestock. Also, this rifle bears the name of of Dr. Lou Douglas (inside in pencil). Dr. Douglas was the Chief Medical Officer of the
National Capital Region at some point in time and
a Palma Match competitor on several occasions.
At least some of the laminated stocks were ordered by Col. William J. Strachan in the 50's or 60's.Bill is still alive (and sharp). Bill told me how many sets were made, but I don't recall. Somewhere I have notes on the subject, but I seem to remember the number being around 60. All would have gone to friends of Col. Strachan who were DCRA competitors.
Be advised that this laminated wood didn't mean much to these fellows. It was pretty, but cost them nothing. They chopped it, glued pieces to it, and in some cases used it for firewood. Makes a person cringe to think of it today!
Over the years I've collected lots of Longbranch furniture while at Connaught. Also, when Canadian friends would come to Illinois, they would bring a load to get it out of their way. Most of it is new,but some of it is in used sets. The reason for this is that many of the DCRA rifles (.303 or 7.62 conv.) were converted to target rifles where only the action was retained. Again, makes you cringe, but just the way it was.
The LB you recently purchased is beautiful.
_________________________________________________________
Another email from a fellow considered to be an expert---
___________________________________________________________
Terry,
I remember seeing a photo in Skennerton's book
of the wide (5/16-3/8") horizontally laminated wood.
I seem to recall the photo in a late North American
section on the same page (or prior page) as the page
that describes the 7.62 military target rifles. These
were the rifles that were stamped with the C in an
oval (oblong?). (page 257-258)
I have several pieces of the wider laminated wood,
but not a set. Had a chance to buy a nice set in about
1983 but dragged my feet too long. The guy only
wanted $25.00 Canadian. Now kicking myself for
either being broke or stupid!
Found my notes from a conversation with Col. Strachan.
There were 55 sets of wood shipped to Bill Strachan
in Montreal. I can only assume he was on active duty
there when he placed the order and received the stocks.
The stocks were made to specs. by a civilian contractor.
That contractor could well have been Forest Products
Laboratory, the company said to have made your stock.
The real expert in matters to do with these stocks and the
DCRA conversions is no longer with us. That man was
Alan Reid. Alan carried out the magnetic inspection of
the DCRA conversions, as well as many other duties
for the DCRA. Alan passed away this past year in NZ.
I spent many an hour with Alan and acquired
some very interesting bits and bobs from him when he
move to NZ. He was a very interesting fellow!
Oh yes.......Upon questioning Col. Strachan about the
strange variety of laminations and directions of
laminations, he hadn't a clue. "That's just the way they
were delivered."
Another thing.........Col. Strachan informed me that only
one Canadian Army team used the 7.62 conversion. That
might indicate that far less than 200 "Army competition"
(oval C) rifles were produced. I know of five that exist.
One of those five (purchased from Col. Strachan by Dr. J. C.
Thompson) was converted into a target rifle.
Sorry if this message contained TMI.<G>
All the best,
_____________________________________________________________
Next email about laminated stocks.
______________________________________________________________
Terry:
I have two or three sets of laminated wood, and always looking for more. However, from what I have been able to find out on the wood, they were all from the testing and evaluation centre, just outside of Ottawa many years ago. Apparently, it was decided that they would be sold off to DCRA or anyone that wanted them, as they did not warp, and this is paramount for a target rifle. As to numbers, no one is sure how many sets were made, but all mine do have a small number stamped on them or a painted number on the stock. I would estimate that less than 100 of each type was done up. As with anything, they will escalate in price due to the scarcity, but as to value...again, what's a blond worth on a saturday night...whatever you want to pay. I think the history on the stocks has been clouded by legend and rumour, but what I have given you is first hand and what I know about them.
Cheers,
_______________________________________________________________
So there you go.
Note the rifle pictured was in fact bought on Vancouver Island the previous owner saying that he had owned it since the sixties and shot cast lead from it and maybe 30 FMJ loads.
The bore is pristine and measures at .3025.
Mechanically the rifle is perfect.
Visually it is stunning.
Most laminated stocks were bought or given to DCRA shooters.
Regards
Terry in Victoria
Greenfields
CGN Regular
- Location
- Lower mainland BC
very very neat!
Cheers
Brian
Cheers
Brian
