Ortona Museum

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b-wingpilot

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Just thought a few of you might enjoy seeing some pics from the museum in Ortona.

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Wow, now I must make a trip there.

Incredible to see those items that were found in the battlefield and put on display. Some of those German helmets bring about a bitter feeling as you can see some of the bullet entry points. Same with the Italian helmets. You don't read much about Italian involvement in the battle.

I like that broomhandle, I wonder if that is the M712 "Schnellfeuer model ?

A LB Sten that is still on duty in a way, makes me hold my LB No 4 ever so closer.

The bakelite grips on that P38 sure make their durability known when the rest of the firearm is rusted to heck but the grips are still reasonable intact. I wonder what the date and maker were on this particular P38 ?

Is that an actual Canadian uniform from the battle ?

I wonder if that is a Longbranch No 4 in the firearm display ? Looks like it may have received some battle damage ? It is also nice to see the Italy firearms on display, you don't see them in many WW1 or 2 displays. That Kar98k makes you wonder if it went down beside the soldier that carried it.

I am guessing that long barreled piece is an AT rifle of sorts with its bipod close by ?

Nice MG-42, looks like she would have back in 1943.

Thank you for the pictures, is the Museum hard to find in Ortona ?
 
Yes, I definitely reccomend a trip to this museum. It's small, but definately one of the best museums I've ever been to (ok, I might be a little biased here).

All of the items were un-restored, and all firearms were live (including the ammo in the MG-42 belt) :D

The broomhandle is a C-96 "red nine" and not the schnellfeuer model, and it was pristine, including the bore!

I agree, if only that LB sten could talk...

As for the P38, I couldn't see any markings at all through the rust and corrosion.

And yes, that is a genuine L EDMN R corporal's uniform.

I couldn't quite make out the manufacturer on the No.4

That is a 20mm Cannon, but I can't remember what aircraft it was from.

And the museum wasn't hard to find at all, Ortona is pretty damn small. However, getting to Ortona is a little difficult. We were staying in Rome, but I convinced the GF to go to the town in which the regiment had it's way with back in '43. We trained our way there, and if you can understand a transit map and have the patience to put up with the Italian's lack of keeping a schedule, then you'll do fine.
 
No dewatts ? Wow, that is interesting.

What stops someone from "re-acquiring" that Mg42 and ammo ? :D

If you get stuck in Italian traffic in Rome, just borrow that Panzerfaust to clear your path ;).
 
There was no Italian involvement in the battle.
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Correct, they folded after Sicily.

Interesting to see the Garand there as well. I guess it is the Ortona War museum, not the Ortona Battle Museum.

Mark Zuehkle has a good book on the battle.

Ortona is on my bucket list.
 
There were still a limited number of Italian troops still fighting after Sicily,they joined German units.Most were the Italian facist troops called the blackshirts.
 
Filthy said:
I thought I read somewhere Canadians used the Thompson as thier SMG in Italy and the Sten in NWE for supply reasons.
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According to my grandfather-in-law, a lot of the Sgts and up swapped for Thompson, but not neccessarily everyone did this.
 
dts369 said:
There were still a limited number of Italian troops still fighting after Sicily,they joined German units.Most were the Italian facist troops called the blackshirts.
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Any Italians fighting after the Italian capitulation would have been rare birds indeed. Never heard any accounts of Italian resistance after September 3,1943. And not to many before that date, mostly a lot of surrendering and running away.
 
took care of an old fellow, now deceased, by the name of Weston Tennier who fought with the black watch in ortona. told me about watching his best friend being "stitched up the middle" by a german machine gun, probably the mg-42. he carried a lee enfield then a thompson during sicily and the mainland italy campaign. his was a No.1 Mk.3 enfield, which he said he preferred over the thompson because of the range. was involved in the closing of the falaise gap and had his leg broken and was captured by german forces. was sad to see him pass away but got to spend alot of time talking openly about his experiences, especially ortona, which he was suprised I even knew about. had the utmost respect for the 1st parachute division.
 
Sad in a way, with the veterans from WW2 passing, we are slowly seeing the events and stories that once could be told by the veterans themselves, change hand to books becoming the primary reference source.

Some Canadian and German vets I have had the privilege of meeting talked about their experiences only after I showed genuine interest, some more than others as it must have been painful to think back on those days of uncertainty.
 
archerynut said:
took care of an old fellow, now deceased, by the name of Weston Tennier who fought with the black watch in ortona. told me about watching his best friend being "stitched up the middle" by a german machine gun, probably the mg-42. he carried a lee enfield then a thompson during sicily and the mainland italy campaign. his was a No.1 Mk.3 enfield, which he said he preferred over the thompson because of the range. was involved in the closing of the falaise gap and had his leg broken and was captured by german forces. was sad to see him pass away but got to spend alot of time talking openly about his experiences, especially ortona, which he was suprised I even knew about. had the utmost respect for the 1st parachute division.
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Sorry to nitpick, but The Black Watch was never deployed to Italy. The battle for Ortona was fought in December 1943 and the majority of the fighting there was done by The Loyal Edmonton Regiment and The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada. Both units were in the 1st Infantry Div.

The Black Watch was assigned to the 2nd Infantry Div and received it's baptism of fire in Normandy in July 1944. The Black Watch was decimated during the course of a poorly planned and executed attack on Verrieres Ridge on 25 July 1944, suffering 307 casualties. Outside of Dieppe no other Cdn unit suffered as many casualties in a single day during WW2. The conduct of this battle remains controversial. The Black watch was subsequently reconstituted and was active in closing the Falaise gap in August 1944.

Cdn troops in Sicily/Italy were officially armed with the No4 Lee Enfield having turned in their SMLEs prior to deployment. The British and other Commonwealth troops continued to use the SMLE in Italy until supplanted by the No4.
 
hmmm I wonder why he would have told me about that. to be honest, his dementia was advanced for sure and he had moments of perfect clarity but other times, he would repeat things to me several times, so I would not put it past him to mix up events that had taken place nearly 6 decades past. I wasn't making any assumptions, just sharing what he had told me. was there a geographical area of canada that the black watch were drawn from? because he was born and raised in ontario, if that makes any difference. his last name may sound french but he spoke nothing but english his whole life.
 
The Black Watch was/is based in Montreal and was mobilized there for WW2. On mobilization infantry units initially drew troops from their home location, but over time replacement personnel came from just about anywhere as they were provided by the reinforcement pool.
 
purple said:
The Black Watch was/is based in Montreal and was mobilized there for WW2. On mobilization infantry units initially drew troops from their home location, but over time replacement personnel came from just about anywhere as they were provided by the reinforcement pool.
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I thought the Black Watch was disbanded some years ago. I seem to remember a lot of angry Black Watch vets at the time.
Or was it changed from regular force to a militia unit?
 
The Black Watch, along with The Canadian Guards, The Fort Garry Horse, and The Queen's Own Rifles was disbanded in the Regular force back in 1970 during the great Trudeau post-integration reductions. All of these units, less the Guards, are still active in the reserves.
 
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