Out of the box Tac driver

[Boomer]

Fixed it for ya...nobody should be shooting critters at 500yrds with a 4moa rifle, it leaves the shooter with zero room for error on a 20 inch target. no offence.

I disagree. A moose presents a big enough target to justify such a shot with a 4 minute rifle. The man who can shoot up to his 4 minute rifle at 500 yards, on demand, under field conditions would have little trouble killing a moose at 500 yards. But if he can't, having a half minute rifle would be of no benefit to him because he couldn't hit the moose with that either. Big game is not killed by firing groups, and even a 4 minute rifle is will put its first round well within that 20" circle.

 

[arcadia]

I got a cheap Marlin XL7 in .270. I shot a 3 shot group at 100 yards with 2 holes touching and one hole almost touching. It's got great accuracy with cheap blue box federal ammo. I am very very happy with it.

 

[X-fan]

I disagree. A moose presents a big enough target to justify such a shot with a 4 minute rifle. The man who can shoot up to his 4 minute rifle at 500 yards, on demand, under field conditions would have little trouble killing a moose at 500 yards. But if he can't, having a half minute rifle would be of no benefit to him because he couldn't hit the moose with that either. Big game is not killed by firing groups, and even a 4 minute rifle is will put its first round well within that 20" circle.

My OCD side hates it, but theoretically very true!
500 yards at 4 minutes is (give or take) a 20 inch group and more importantly 10 inches from point of aim....A dead moose will be the result.

My buddy's wife (she shoots with us) shot a Boone and Crockett class speed goat at just under 450 yards. The rifle was a 4 minute 30-06..... 4 minutes, but the cold clean shot was always dead on.
At the shot the guide was so shocked (she hit and stoned it) he dropped and smashed his binoculars on the only rock around....That is how its done!

I believe if we want the privilege of shooting game at long range we owe it to the game to bring our very best effort. I spare no effort with best quality equipment and practice relentlessly in this belief.
Even then there are many times I will not touch the trigger.

Minute of angle is plenty of accuracy for the 500 yard shot.
Sadly the first time a new long range shooter tries his "minute of angle" hunting rifle at 500 yards it wont look like a damn bit like minute of angle.

The idea of buying an accurate rifle then being able to hit game at 500 yards is pure bullsh1t...It isn't the rifle that makes the shot.
The worlds best equipment will never tell you when not to shoot.

The best (and only) bet is to first shoot a few thousand rounds at long range. An average moa capable rifle will do.

 

[Marlin375]

This is a great topic, but at the end of the day I truly don't think that 4moa and 500yrd should even be used in the same sentence. If my 300wm (my personal 500yrd moose gun) did not shoot better than 4moa it would have been sold ages ago.
Confidence in your gun has an awfull lot to do with making a 500 yrd shot. And it takes both to get the job done.
The flip side is moose are relatively easy to kill, Elk on the other hand, require a good shot with a good round.

In my experience most 4moa rifles either have too much drop at that range or dont have enough energy.

It really depends also on how you come up with 4moa.
If your gun puts the first round on the line 2inches high with a cold barrel then starts to open up with following shots I would not call it a 4 moa gun. Its the first two that count, measure them, then wait 20 minutes to fire another 2. Just my opinion.

 

[Boomer]

I presented the 4 MOA example to make to make the point that one does not need match accuracy in order to kill big game, but I did not intend 4 minute accuracy as a recommendation. I doubt that many of the folks who have the talent to make a 500 yard shot on a big game animal would be satisfied with a 4 MOA rifle.

Now you can call a rifle anything you want, but if it puts 5 shots (or 3 or 10) in 20" at 500 yards, its a 4 MOA rifle. That is the measure of accuracy of the combination of the rifle and the ammunition at a particular range based on a specific number of rounds fired, and the more often the combination of rifle and ammunition repeats the performance, the more precise the label becomes. But that does not mean all 5 rounds have to be touching the periphery of the circle that represents 4 MOA. Neither does it mean that the measure of accuracy is true at all ranges. The same rifle might very well shoot 2 minutes at 100, but as we know, the gremlins can come out as range increases, so by the time the bullet has travelled to 500 the situation has changed.

Not all flat shooting rifles are accurate, and not all long range shots are made with flat shooting rifles. The only advantage a flat shooting cartridge has after all, is to make up for imprecise range estimation. I can think of no cartridges commonly used for hunting that can be sighted for 200 yards and hit the kill zone at 500. If you have to make a sight adjustment, it doesn't really matter if it is a 3 minute adjustment or a 10. As for a relationship between power and accuracy, I have seen some powerful rifles that were minute of dump truck.