Overcharged Round - Bolt Stuck and Need Help

Blackthorne

Blackthorne

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
19   0   0
Location
Keswick, Ontario
I first have to say if this is in the wrong place, mods please move...


Secondly, I want it to be clear that this failure was due to AMMO and NOT the gun. The f**king Stag ran like a dream (3600 rounds in 4 days), and this last batch of Ammo on the last day of the course took out three guns..

The bolt is locked in place and won't move. James and Aaron from Tac Res said it looks like the round was overcharged, detonated (blowing the bottom out of the mag allong with rounds, spring and follower) and has expanded the case so it won't come out.

They figure the detonation was still onging as the case started to extract, and now the extractor still has a grab on the case, but it still locked into battery (tho partially rotated)

Pictures shortly when my POS FTP site comes back up...

How should I go about getting the boltcarrier and bolt out of this jam? Should I just hope the extractor, kingpin and bolt are stronger than the brass and pry her out?

I really want to deal with this myself, but if there is any chance I am going to fux the upper, I will take it to a smith...

PICS, for what they are worth

536432208_13795e1656.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1177/536432172_f9f3975c50.jpg?v=0
 
Last edited:
Hmmmm, the opinion of a good armorer will most likely come up with the right advice, but my first thoughts were to spray the case/chamber if you can with a penetrating oil, let er sit for a little bit, then slide a coated cleaning rod down the barrel and into the case and try to tap the brass case and bolt back?

Dont know if it would work, or if it would just mess something up.
 
I would have to say that your bolt and possible bolt carrier have been stressed. The upper housing is probably OK but I would not worry about being carefull with the bolt, carrier or barrel at this point to get it apart. You could remove the barrel nut drill out the barrel locating pin and turn the barrel till it unlocks the bolt and can remove the barrel the the bolt carrier group. Just some thoughts.
Dave
 
here is my 2 bits, hopefully it will be useful to you

i would definately spray a penetrating oil of some sort on the sliding surfaces of the bolt carrier and bolt and let it sit for awhile before attempting anything. after that has been done immobilize/clamp the upper reciever in a bench vise with rubber jaws or some other clamping jig so as it does not move. be careful not to over tighten the vise as this could crush the upper reciever if you are not careful. use an aluminum punch/cylindrical rod (or any other soft metal will work just fine) to strike against the forward portion of the bolt carrier near the breech, or if you cant get the punch in there then you can try the rear of the bolt if it is a full circle type. the next step is to find a large hammer (preferably a dead blow so that if you miss on a swing it will not damage anything badly). give it a few good whacks and the bolt carrier should come loose and unlock the bolt. dont forget safety glasses!

keep in mind that the bolt is still engaged into the barrel extension and using a cleaning rod from the muzzle will not get it unlocked.

good luck
 
Contact Walter @ Arms East he may be able to shed some light on your problem.The Ammo failure soundsl ike a reduced powder charge and what occurred is referred to a flash over you are lucky that the rifle did not suffer a major failure or a Ka Boom
 
You might try a one piece cleaning rod, or a piece of drill stock the right diameter, (DO NOT USE A SECTIONAL CLEANING ROD OR ONE MADE FROM ALUMINUM) with the barrel/reciever held in a good strong padded vise, put the rod in through the muzzle and tap gently on the end untill the empty case comes out. From your photo it looks like the bolt is already in the unlatched position so it's just the brass holding everything together. If you try to use the extractor you will either shear off the rim or break the extractor. Also the extractor is only grabbing the ight side of the brass where as a rod down the barrel will hit the centre of the case and excert more force than the extractor.
And finally, hitting is a more effective method then pulling, it also helps you work out your frustrations!!!

Scott
 
I agree with Wayne that I think what happened is due to a low powder charge -- an over charge with a rifle powder is extremely unlikely (the damn capacity is pretty much full anyway) -- and if it was pistol power - your upper would be in pieces...
The brass may have run a bit too and be stuck in the boltface's nooks and cranky's

Since you have the lower off and I would recommend getting a non marring punch and after lubing the bolt and carrier -- I would use a mallet and whack the bolt carrier to the rear -- this will ensure that the bolt is unlocked (it appears from my viewing of the photo not to be 100% unlocked yet) and if the bolt is still partially locked no amount of hammering from the muzzle end will cause it to unlock.
Worst case scenario is the rim will snap on the brass and the bolt and carrier will come out -- if that happens you can then tap the casing out with a cleaning rod.

Depending upon what the examination of the casing and bolt show - really depends on the amount of damage to the bolt and chamber (if any).


Additionally since you state it blew out the bottom of the mag etx -- then the primer may have been pierced -- and a lot of the pressure directed thru the mag was via the primer hole.

Its hard to state anything 100% for certain due to not being there and not beign able to exaimine the upper and lower

Can you take a few more pics?
- Lower
- better pics of the upper and bolt carrier
and the bolt and detailed strip of the bolt once its apart?


Additionally -- since you've taken it apart already - you did not follow the advice by the guys at CavArms on what to do when you get a Kaboom...


I'm curious on the ammo used.
 
To Quote Shawn (who posts as GarryOwen on ARF, GoTX etc.)
Guys,

As you may or may not know, I work for a Rifle Company and know most of the owners of all the AR companies out there. For the most part, they stand behind their products and will most likely fix a gun even if it wasn’t 100% their fault (as long as it's not a "Parts Gun" and even then, they will probly help you out).

With that said, you cook off your gun with Store Bought Ammunition (NOT “reloads), DO NOT TRY AND TAKE THE GUN APPART! Just take off any expensive doo-dads (optics, BUIS, etc) and send them the gun. Include the blown case and any brass from right before it blew as well (but take copious pictures of everything before you send it off)

Think of it as a crime scene.

Also, contact the ammo company. Send them copies of the pictures and any lot # and/or production codes off the ammo you used (as well as when you bought it and where).

Be polite and professional in any phone calls and correspondences you have with them (and keep copies of EVERYTHIGN). As I mentioned, most of the time, they will fix it fast (and free) just to keep the bad-press off their products.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Garryowen,document.write(''+ myTimeZone('Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:29:15 GMT-0800', 'February 06, 2007 02:29 AM')+''); February 06, 2007 01:29 AM

Shawn M. Nealon
Cavalry Arms Corp.
www.cavalryarms.com
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Another point -- bullet setback can also cause severe overpressure issues.
I'm interested in what ammo was used.

Did you notice excessive flash out the ejection port?

and was it a full factory rifle that had not been "dicked" with?
 
Thansk Kev..correct on all counts, but I am also curious on what the CavArms advice is....

EDIT to answer some of your questions Kev...

THe ammo was factory Federal (new not remanufactured). I am still working on getting alot number from the fellow that brought it.

I didn't notice any exessive flash, but this was only the second round of the Federal that I used (I just peeled and changed mags from the last of my ammo to this stuff on the run) so I was a bit distracted. Not sure if that first round was bright.

This is a bone stock Stag. Not fancy crap or tuning.

The lower is in perfect condition. I inspected it when I got back and mated it to another upper and it's working fine, just bloody dirty.

I just got the bolt out. Some WD40 and a few very gentle taps and it came right out. You can clearly see the expansion on the bottom of the case...

Extractor is done, but the bolt, carrier, king pin, firing pin and cotter pin all look fine, as does the chamber. The casing came out in one piece.

PICS:

IMG_0542.JPG

IMG_0543.JPG

IMG_0547.JPG

IMG_0549.JPG

IMG_0553.JPG

IMG_0554.JPG
 
Last edited:
The good thing about the AR platform is that it'll deflect trapped gases away from the shooter in the event of a cartidge failure, out the mag well, ejection port and charging handle. The worst KB I've seen had the integral pictainny rail peel off towards the shooter, stopped only by an A.R.M.S. BUIS. So attach accessories to your rails, they enhance your safety!
 
I have seen this exact same thing happen before.

There are a number of possible causes. But a very dirty gun is one.

But likely, there is no damage to your gun besides the extractor and the magazine, unless your extractor chewed something up on the way out.

that and x2 what KevinB said.
 
Wow! I'd definitely be giving Federal a call about that little incident. Just so we know, what factory load were you using at the time? Did you figure out the lot number yet?
 
Due way the casing looks - there may be some scoring of the chamber - and the life on your lugs may be shortened -- but I would surmise that you should be good to go otherwise.

One of the joys of the AR is the firing pin cant reach the primer until the bolt is locked (unless you have serious headspace issues - that would be visibly obvious)

I've recently noticed bullet setback in Federal 69gr loadings - to the point I have removed the 69gr load from my mags - using only Mk262, M856 and M995. I've never noticed it in the 55gr loads I use CONUS for training though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom