P-17 Enfield Straightened Floor Plate for Custom Build

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Northern Viking

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Hi there, looking for a straightened floorplate for a P-17. Hoping to find one to complete my project. Stock is flat not offset or doglegged. Anyone have a line on something like this in Canada?
 
I needed one to put together parts from a 1926 Remington Model 30. I found that a BSA Sporter conversion - I suspect is a "D" grade - had a straightened guard. I could not find one to buy, so used that BSA one as template - made a jig - cut off tongue from standard military one, and re-welded it - grinding and filing, then polishing and cold blue. Seemed to work out fine. Main purpose of the jig was to position and hold the parts together - after sawing off the military goose-neck tongue - so unit was straight and flat and the action holes were exactly the correct original distance apart.

If you are not willing or able to make one, perhaps look for parts for those BSA sporters - they were done in 5 grades, I think - the top two grades, or perhaps three - had the straightened guard that you are looking for. Those BSA conversions were done up by BSA from United States Rifle Model of 1917 - the name given the rifle as per a book here, by C.S. Ferris. A book by Charles Stratton calls it the U.S. Model of 1917, which is what is engraved on the front receiver ring of several that are here, by the three makers.
 
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The book 'Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing" by Harold MacFarland has detailed instructions for forging the P14/M1917 trigger guard flat. No cutting and welding required. They can be found on pages 117 - 121. The book has an entire section on customizing those actions.
 
If you alter the trigger guard from goose neck to flat tongue, will find that the original magazine box is too tall - so have to file down the "stops" at front and back so magazine box fits with a small bit of "wiggle" in there when the action screws are snugged up, when metal is in the "new" stock. Then have to cut off the bottom edges of the magazine box, so that the outline on the trigger guard is slightly proud. So long as your weld did not fill up the little notch at the front, the standard military follower, magazine spring and floor plate seems to snap in and work fine.

I think that you want the sleeves (ferrules?) around the front and rear action screws to be setting the spacing between the receiver and the bottom metal - do not want the magazine box to be holding them apart - hence the need for a bit of "wiggle" in there - I was going at about 0.005" clearance - so a smidgeon more than thickness of piece of computer printer paper. I doubt that it would hurt anything to be at .010" or .015" clearance??

So, to OP - perhaps might want to look for guard and magazine box from BSA Sporter conversion that had the "flat" already done, or perhaps parts from Remington Model 30 - at least initially they were made by Remington from WWI M1917 parts - multiple changes in the years they were made, so likely want to see what it is, that is needed for/from any particular version.
 
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B_noser said:
The book 'Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing" by Harold MacFarland has detailed instructions for forging the P14/M1917 trigger guard flat. No cutting and welding required. They can be found on pages 117 - 121. The book has an entire section on customizing those actions.
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I do not have that book - thanks for reference - from my one-time-doing of that job, I would be concerned that forging might allow the action screw hole spacing to change, if that front tongue allowed to move forward. Those rifles not like Mauser - front screw is 90 degrees to bore line - rear screw is tilted - screw head is forward - so perhaps 85 degrees to bore line. I found in 1950's book by Roy Dunlop, was a thing to re-drill, re-tap that rear action screw hole in the receiver so that it was 90 degrees to bore line - I think he used a floor plate from 1903 Springfield rifle, at that point - was already flat. I presume that was less fuss for him to do and parts were readily available when and where he was. I had spare military goose neck one - with tools, etc. that I had on hand, seemed that cut and re-weld and grind was the thing to do. Is good to hear there might be another way to get it done.
 
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Yes if you want to use original hole spacing then cutting & welding is the correct option . Cutting and welding is an easy job if you have an angle grinder and a welder avail. I have used a 400 amp Hobart that could be set low enough or a 130 amp buzz box that would handle a 1/32 rod easily.

Build a "hole spacing "jig (can be wood if a one off) Weld up with a bit of excess deposit, grind some off & then file to contour, finish with 600 grit emory cloth.
 
OP - I was just looking on Numrich website - both 30-06 shortened magazine and straightened floor plates for Remington Model 30 are listed - but both showing as Out of Stock. They do have the various magazines for other cartridges that were available though - appears those mag boxes had filler / spacers to the front and to the rear as required.
 
fingers284 said:
Yes if you want to use original hole spacing then cutting & welding is the correct option . Cutting and welding is an easy job if you have an angle grinder and a welder avail. I have used a 400 amp Hobart that could be set low enough or a 130 amp buzz box that would handle a 1/32 rod easily.

Build a "hole spacing "jig (can be wood if a one off) Weld up with a bit of excess deposit, grind some off & then file to contour, finish with 600 grit emory cloth.
Click to expand...

I was able to get it done with a small Lincoln Electric "Mig-Pak" 180 wire feed welding machine, using StarGold C-25 shielding gas. Was too hot when I went to pick it up - dropped it on concrete floor and it rang like a bell - so I think the welding was holding good. I am not a welder, at all, so pretty happy to get that to work out.
 
I do not have that book - thanks for reference - from my one-time-doing of that job, I would be concerned that forging might allow the action screw hole spacing to change, if that front tongue allowed to move forward. Those rifles not like Mauser - front screw is 90 degrees to bore line - rear screw is tilted - screw head is forward - so perhaps 85 degrees to bore line. I found in 1950's book by Roy Dunlop, was a thing to re-drill, re-tap that rear action screw hole in the receiver so that it was 90 degrees to bore line - I think he used a floor plate from 1903 Springfield rifle, at that point - was already flat. I presume that was less fuss for him to do and parts were readily available when and where he was. I had spare military goose neck one - with tools, etc. that I had on hand, seemed that cut and re-weld and grind was the thing to do. Is good to hear there might be another way to get it done.

Yes if you want to use original hole spacing then cutting & welding is the correct option . Cutting and welding is an easy job if you have an angle grinder and a welder avail. I have used a 400 amp Hobart that could be set low enough or a 130 amp buzz box that would handle a 1/32 rod easily
Click to expand...

I only forged one and that was about forty years ago, but I do not recall having any difficulty. The simple jig, which indexes on the forward screw hole and the front of the mag well, prevents any change in bolt spacing. The lack of welding filler metal ensures there won't be a noticeable color shift once it is re-blued.
 
It was years ago that i last re-blued a welded floorplate and I can not remember having a color change at the weld...definitly a color change on re-blued actions , from light grey to almost brilliant purple.

I had a couple floorplates hot blued but most were just cold-blued...this does bring up another observation of the time, all commercial cold blues on offer do not color different gun parts all the same...much experimentation from blue manuf to another usually finds one that will match original color.

Edited to add...i should clarify I always used low hydrogen 70-18 rod, if you use a high nickle content rod I would bet that color matching would be more of a problem than I ever had.
 
Back to this project again LOL need a floor plate, preferably one that is flattened. I have the box, follower etc. all modified from previous work, just need the trigger guard/floorplate. Thanks
 
It's been a long time since I cut and welded one, but I don't recall any problem just using the action as a jig. Of course, you have to protect the action against spatter and overheating, but it pretty well guarantees proper alignment. The only problem I do recall was that the welding rod wasn't the same alloy as the floorplate, so it didn't take bluing exactly the same.
 
Well kudos to the OP for wading through the ocd hysteria and returning.
I have two ‘spares’, I can happily give up one if you can wait until CDN Post goes back to work.
Once they are back just pm me and I can chuck one in the mail.
 
Potashminer said:
I do not have that book - thanks for reference - from my one-time-doing of that job, I would be concerned that forging might allow the action screw hole spacing to change, if that front tongue allowed to move forward. Those rifles not like Mauser - front screw is 90 degrees to bore line - rear screw is tilted - screw head is forward - so perhaps 85 degrees to bore line. I found in 1950's book by Roy Dunlop, was a thing to re-drill, re-tap that rear action screw hole in the receiver so that it was 90 degrees to bore line - I think he used a floor plate from 1903 Springfield rifle, at that point - was already flat. I presume that was less fuss for him to do and parts were readily available when and where he was. I had spare military goose neck one - with tools, etc. that I had on hand, seemed that cut and re-weld and grind was the thing to do. Is good to hear there might be another way to get it done.
Click to expand...
You use a jig that holds the screw spacing. When I did it, it did make a jig, but I cut and welded instead. - dan
 
A thought. If you are going to straighten the floorplate, you will end up with a deep forend anyways. I suspect the laminated stocks from Boyd's already have this taken into account if you want a stock without the dip?

However you'd have a stock with a short shallow slot with no apparent purpose.
 
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